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Kevin Rudd or Tony Abbott? - Hardtuned.net

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Kevin Rudd or Tony Abbott? 

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#1 PkrSilvia

  • Joined:30-January 07
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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:12 AM

With the election fast approaching, I'm curious to know who people are voting for and why?

I'm not 100% sure yet and really think it is between a turd sandwich and a douche bag.

#2 bumblebee

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:37 AM

Out of the two I would vote rudd. Because I think that Abbott would bring back work choices again.

But I will be voting for the motoring enthusiasts party

#3 chris_c30

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:24 AM

Rudd I dont like abbots paid parental scheme, boat buy back scheme, giving more money to the unemployed and he doesnt seem like he has the strength of character to lead how are we meant to get into surplus spending so much money on these things, and hes obviously making outrages promises to get votes im just worried about what he's going to cut to make them happen

#4 Chappy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:48 AM

View Postchris_c30, on 29 August 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Rudd I dont like abbots paid parental scheme, boat buy back scheme, giving more money to the unemployed and he doesnt seem like he has the strength of character to lead how are we meant to get into surplus spending so much money on these things, and hes obviously making outrages promises to get votes im just worried about what he's going to cut to make them happen

What money did he pledge to the unemployed?

As for crazy promises, have you seen some of Rudds promises? He is trying to convince voters that he will build us a high speed rail across the east coast for $57 million.....

#5 chris_c30

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:13 AM

View PostChappy, on 29 August 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

View Postchris_c30, on 29 August 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Rudd I dont like abbots paid parental scheme, boat buy back scheme, giving more money to the unemployed and he doesnt seem like he has the strength of character to lead how are we meant to get into surplus spending so much money on these things, and hes obviously making outrages promises to get votes im just worried about what he's going to cut to make them happen

What money did he pledge to the unemployed?

As for crazy promises, have you seen some of Rudds promises? He is trying to convince voters that he will build us a high speed rail across the east coast for $57 million.....
which is still cheaper then the paid parental scheme and he promised money for people that have been unemployed for a certain amount of time if they get a job

#6 just_learning_import

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:16 AM

I voted Palmer , cause im sick of the school yard BS that both sides seem to do every time they meet with out addressing matters that are important .....I did a postal vote as I wont be here for the voteing week end , cause I will be locked in a highrise with my mrs for 3 days :naughty:

#7 Shark

  • Joined:14-April 05
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:33 AM

When is the date of the election anyway?
I'll be voting for some minority party that deserves it.
f**k both Rudd and Abbott.

#8 chris_c30

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:40 AM

If amep make it to the Senate ill be happy

#9 mitch_32

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:51 AM

Like Brian said on family guy, undecided voters are the dumbest people on earth.

Personally I don't like either of them but you can't go past Liberal bean counting, Labor touts their economic success without acknowledging the 10 years hard slog from Liberal to put them in a position to survive the GFC.

Since then they have spent their way to $250 BILLION in debt.

Vote Rudd if you want someone who is a good public speaker, because there won't be much money left to deliver any schemes if they keep going like they are.

Abbott I don't really agree with either, personality of a rock and the speaking skills of one too, won't put in simple things like marriage equality and a few other policies seem a bit out there, but at least they will bring the economy back to the black and that's what affects the most people in this country.

#10 Shakey Bones

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:58 AM

Yup Im voting motoring enthusiast party. Then the Liberal Democratic party because they just rock, Then probably the NLP we have to get Labour out of power, this is no way to run a country we need to gain some confidence in our government and economy there is no reason why things should be the way they are.

But whatever you do vote the greens last.

Posted Image

Edited by Shakey Bones, 29 August 2013 - 08:22 AM.


#11 WPN-X7

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:22 AM

way i see it its pretty much like voting for the lesser retard.

as others have said. im voting for the AMEP. i dont care who leads aus as theyre as bad as one another.

#12 Chappy

  • Joined:03-November 04
  • Location:Australia NSW
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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:29 AM

View Postchris_c30, on 29 August 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

View PostChappy, on 29 August 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

View Postchris_c30, on 29 August 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Rudd I dont like abbots paid parental scheme, boat buy back scheme, giving more money to the unemployed and he doesnt seem like he has the strength of character to lead how are we meant to get into surplus spending so much money on these things, and hes obviously making outrages promises to get votes im just worried about what he's going to cut to make them happen
What money did he pledge to the unemployed? As for crazy promises, have you seen some of Rudds promises? He is trying to convince voters that he will build us a high speed rail across the east coast for $57 million.....
which is still cheaper then the paid parental scheme and he promised money for people that have been unemployed for a certain amount of time if they get a job

You missed my point.
The cost involved with making a high speed rail is measured in billions.
Krudd is comissioning (yet another) environmental study and survey for the possibility of a high speed rail, and trying to pass it off as 'guaranteeing' we will get a high speed rail.

What he is doing is the equivalent of going to visit a car seller to look at a car you might be interested in, and pretending that he has already bought it.

#13 tsurikawa.

  • Joined:05-September 08
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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:33 AM

^ gee I'm sure the liberals have never done something like that before :rolleyes:

#14 Spazo

  • Joined:27-September 06
  • Location:Australia NSW
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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:34 AM

I think if the people vote labor they’re saying they’ll let their prime minister get away with lying, not fulfilling his (and her) election promises and a bunch of other wasteful crap initiatives.
All the hippies on facebook make all this noise about Abbott's stance on gay marriage as though it's some fundamental issue in society. In the scheme of things - who f**king cares if gays can marry, really.. marriage is an old joke. FYI Abbot’s sister is a lesbian and he’s just chosen not to draw that card in the political arena.

And it’s always the blue collar workers/tradies with the ‘workchoices’ crap… that seems to be the only word in their vocabulary but they’re one of the best paid sectors in the country and I think a lot of them have this big sense of entitlement because it’s an industry culture. It has been said (again and again) that workchoices is dead, of course it remains to be seen.

The question I ask myself; do I vote for someone that has proven he's a douchebag or vote for someone who acts as though he might be one (or at least interviews pretty badly)? I don't have strong feelings either way and I don't pretend I can see the big picture (unlike 90% of people)... I've always had more of a liberal view and I see alot of people bashing Abbott because it's the trendy thing to do.

#15 steveP

  • Joined:05-February 05
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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:38 AM

As above, we're really stuck between a douche and a turd sandwich. One thing is for sure, the Labor party is taking the economy downhill. They're spending with no real plans to curb it. It's going to end up devaluing our dollar and we'll all pay more for everything.

I wouldn't hesitate to vote Liberal if it wasn't for two things. Tony Abbott is not leader material. He's our George W Bush. The bubbling idiot coming up with something every week that sounds retarded. Clearly the Liberal party wants Malcolm Turnbull as leader and so does most of Australia. If he was, they would be a shoe-in for the election. However he has stated he doesn't want the responsibility of running Australia.

The other thing is their NBN plan. It's just not good enough. Yes, it's a good compromise between cost and speed, but it will be obsolete in no time. Meaning redoing it and costing more in the long run.

#16 AC-S13

  • Joined:12-August 08
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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:53 AM

Why is everyone so concerned about the government spending money? We are in the top 10 list for least debt throughout the world. We have a AAA Rating.
Labour has at least told the truth and advised - yes we are in deficit and will be for a while until we can dig our selves out of this.
Abbott and Hockey are absolute turkeys. Where the hell is their budget to breakdown the costing of all these policies?? Abbotts a Clown.

Yes Rudd may not be much better, but im voting labour purely because Abbott's boat buy back scheme is ludacris. This buy-back scheme is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard. It is a complete waste of money. Also the lack of current costings have been caclulated to a $30 billion hole or something rather. Abolishing the carbox tax is silly (albeit we only contribute 2% of global emmissions) but its a step in the right direction to keep it as our environment is only getting worse. Abbott's paid parental scheme is not a good idea for you average worker as he will end up paying for some female worker on 150,000k salary to have a baby..... Plus hes just an all round dodge ball champion. In last nights debate he virtaully dodged all questions going around in circles, pointing the finger at Labour..... hopeless.

The NBN will be expensive, yes. It will also be our path to keep up with technology for the future. If the full speed NBN is not fully implemented in due time, we will be quite far behind in relation to data traffic and speed. I want high speed internet avaliable to all Australians - simple as That. Again Abbott's plan to implement a mediocre NBN is not the way to go for future.
Im already getting speeds of what he predicts everyone will get.....Lame.

Rudd just seems like the better option between the 2 choice frankly.

#17 TheApothecary

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:08 AM

You're all spastics voting based on a face rather than the party and policies.

"real men vote below the line".

Edited by TheApothecary, 29 August 2013 - 10:09 AM.


#18 AC-S13

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:12 AM

View PostTheApothecary, on 29 August 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

You're all spastics voting based on a face rather than the party and policies.

"real men vote below the line".

Policies have been mentioned as apart of this thread. What else do you want us to talk about? Rudd's suit material or Abbott's Hair?


Clown.

#19 steveP

  • Joined:05-February 05
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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:25 AM

View PostACE-18E, on 29 August 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Why is everyone so concerned about the government spending money? We are in the top 10 list for least debt throughout the world. We have a AAA Rating.

Because our rating has very little to do with Labor, in fact it has nothing to do with them. First of all I'm no Liberal supporter; I've never voted for them. But our AAA rating is largely due to John Howard's government, as much as we don't want to acknowledge it. He didn't have some magical answers. Spend less and save more. Geographically we are very fortunate too. The mining industry is driving the Australian economy as well as a lot of our farming. Seeing we don't have any neighbouring countries to fight with, we pretty much get on with business without much fuss.

The spin Labor gives us about how our strong economy is due to them spending all the surpluss is wrong and offensive.

Edited by steveP, 29 August 2013 - 10:27 AM.


#20 AC-S13

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:06 AM

View PoststeveP, on 29 August 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

View PostACE-18E, on 29 August 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Why is everyone so concerned about the government spending money? We are in the top 10 list for least debt throughout the world. We have a AAA Rating.

Because our rating has very little to do with Labor, in fact it has nothing to do with them. First of all I'm no Liberal supporter; I've never voted for them. But our AAA rating is largely due to John Howard's government, as much as we don't want to acknowledge it. He didn't have some magical answers. Spend less and save more. Geographically we are very fortunate too. The mining industry is driving the Australian economy as well as a lot of our farming. Seeing we don't have any neighbouring countries to fight with, we pretty much get on with business without much fuss.

The spin Labor gives us about how our strong economy is due to them spending all the surpluss is wrong and offensive.

I am aware of this. Spend less is a good option. But in a country where there are so many demands for spending - this will be difficult to follow through.
Howard did a great job in relation to the economy - but picturing Abbott as Prime minister, as a person (putting aside his policies) just doesn't fit.

Alot of people keep saying that Abbott will win. I hope not.

#21 Chappy

  • Joined:03-November 04
  • Location:Australia NSW
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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:25 AM

View Posttsurikawa., on 29 August 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

^ gee I'm sure the liberals have never done something like that before :rolleyes:

You got an example of when the current opposition party did something like that? Or are you just hoping that is true?

As previously stated, the last time the Liberals were in power, they demonstrated competence.
Labor have demonstrated consistent failed policies, inner bickering and turmoil and most of all, they claim to be fairer to asylum seekers than the Libs were, and yet 1000 asylum seekers have died as a direct result of Labor policy. Howard could have lined up 200 asylum seekers in the middle of Nauru and mowed them down with a minigun, and he would still be in front of Labor.

You people also seem to be forgetting that the same "your policies have not been costed!" argument was thrown around when Labor was the opposition in 2006-7. The opposition does not have the same resources at hand as the incumbent government. They don't have access to all the reports or all the data, so of course they are not going to have all the costings.

If you want to harp on about the costings of policies now, make sure in 3-4 years time when Labor are the opposition (because they are going to lose, face it), make sure you pull the same thing on them.

#22 Flying180

  • Joined:29-March 05
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:37 AM

View PostACE-18E, on 29 August 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

View PostTheApothecary, on 29 August 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

You're all spastics voting based on a face rather than the party and policies.

"real men vote below the line".

Policies have been mentioned as apart of this thread. What else do you want us to talk about? Rudd's suit material or Abbott's Hair?


Clown.

No, he makes a good point.

Yes, there's been a lot of mentions of policies, but there is also a lot of talk about Abbott's and KRudd's personality or their personal opinions...

Who gives a shit about personalities, they don't have any affect on LABOR/LIBERAL policies. It astounds me that people still think that the Leader is the one that chooses the policies. If that was the case, why would he/she have a caucus, or why would he/she assign ministers, or why in fact would there be a whole private department, with their own president (who really is the one that runs the party and therefore government) dedicated to running the parties.

The Leaders have a strong vote when it comes to policies and actioning them, but the majority of the party can still overule them. If you want proof of this, just look at Labor's shenanigans with booting out Rudd, then Gillard. There are a HUGE amount of "faceless" men/women in government who actually run the show.

Wake up people.

If you say you're voting Abbot or Rudd, you've missed the point, and probably don't understand democracy.
If you say you're voting Liberal, Labor, Greens, AMEP, etc, because of "such and such" reason/s, you've got it sussed,

#23 spongeboy

  • Joined:06-June 11
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:180 sx

Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:50 AM

I'm voting with a preference for labor, on the basis of picking the lesser of the 2 dickweeds. But I dont know who I'll vote 1 for..

Also, the infatuation with achieving a budget surplus is stupid. Sure it's great to achieve a budget surplus if you invest your funding efficiently during your stint in the government, but it is pretty pointless if you have to make excessive cuts, and sell public assets to get in the black.

Neither party has really addressed australia's real issues. All they have done is focus on smoke and mirrors like border security(which really isnt a big issue, we have some of the lowest intakes of asylum seekers in the world), cost of living which is BS we have the best living conditions of the western world bar Canada.

What about our infrastructure? What about good investments for our future? What about providing incentives to level out our aging work force? What about incentives to entice enterprise and private investment in Aus? What about healthcare, education and the environment?

Labor at least invested in a broadband network. But they've managed to throw half a terms worth of constructive work down the drain by usurping the current PM due to a frigging poll.

#24 Flying180

  • Joined:29-March 05
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:59 AM

View PostTheApothecary, on 29 August 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

"real men vote below the line".

^^ This too.


Preferences count, so i like to make mine work the way i want it.

The huge need to improve our economy and get rid of the debt means i will vote Liberals number 1.
Last Election Labor promised to at least get close to a surplus, but once again they've failed. In fact, if you look back over the past 50 years when Labor have been in Government, there is nearly always a deficit. (Some notable exceptions which i won't go into)

Yes, during the GFC we needed to spend to spark action in the economy. That was a year ago, and Labor are still spending, and still amassing debt. To make things worse, their policies will ensure they CONTINUE this downward trend.

I believe that a change in government is needed every 2 terms so that we can benefit from the "good stuff" that both major parties offer. Labor has depleted ALL of their "good stuff", it's time to improve our economy and get back on top.


Being a top 10 economy in the world means shit. Look at the big picture, we may have a perceived good economy, but that's comparing it to the absolute shithouse economies around the world. It's like celebrating you got 50% in an exam just because you topped the class with everyone else averaging only 45%. :rolleyes:


I will still be voting liberal number 1, even though i disagree with their policies regarding internet and marriage.
FTTH is the clear winner, but you can always fix it. Yes it'll be more cost, but it's fixable if you're in surplus.
Marriage Equal will not have any cost to the government (it would in fact bring in money), and it's almost a guarantee that it will change sometime within the next 4-6 years. i.e. the Liberal party if put to a vote would vote in favour.

What we CAN'T CHANGE without a lot of sacrifices, is an ever increasing DEBT. Millions each day are lost on interest. Those millions could've built the next road, the next school, hospital etc.


BTW, if anyone mentions Workchoices, i'm going to go postal. This election, the last few years, and the mentioned new policies, all completely agree that Workchoices is dead. Move on people, that will never come back in it's previous form.
Regardless of the government though, i can guarantee that there will be a new system of regulation and fair play. Maybe it will come too late, after we've lost all manufacturing opportunities, but it will come.

#25 Flying180

  • Joined:29-March 05
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:17 PM

View Postspongeboy, on 29 August 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

I'm voting with a preference for labor, on the basis of picking the lesser of the 2 dickweeds. But I dont know who I'll vote 1 for..

Also, the infatuation with achieving a budget surplus is stupid. Sure it's great to achieve a budget surplus if you invest your funding efficiently during your stint in the government, but it is pretty pointless if you have to make excessive cuts, and sell public assets to get in the black.

Neither party has really addressed australia's real issues. All they have done is focus on smoke and mirrors like border security(which really isnt a big issue, we have some of the lowest intakes of asylum seekers in the world), cost of living which is BS we have the best living conditions of the western world bar Canada.

What about our infrastructure? What about good investments for our future? What about providing incentives to level out our aging work force? What about incentives to entice enterprise and private investment in Aus? What about healthcare, education and the environment?

Labor at least invested in a broadband network. But they've managed to throw half a terms worth of constructive work down the drain by usurping the current PM due to a frigging poll.

This response is in regards to border policy.

Some of your other comments also come into it. i.e. infrastructure.

The reason why Border policy is important is because;
1. We don't have the infrastructure to support our current growing population, let alone an influx of immigrants (hence why they are regulated through the normal channels). We need a surplus to spend more on infrastructure.
2. We can't afford the Welfare associated with language development, learning, cultural integration, job searching, social well being etc etc. This is why we need a surplus. I'm all for increasing our refugee intake WHEN WE CAN AFFORD IT.
3. You open the floodgates, more will come.
4. Our society as whole, right or wrong, isn't yet as acceptable of multiculturalism as countries like Canada. So by flooding the country with refugees, you'll end up with more crime (hate and other), and a greater divide between income classes. We as a whole are getting there, but it's still a way off. We need to change this culture before we increase immigrants.


Canada is different. So the comparison isn't really fair. They do somewhat have the infrastructure to support their current intake, but they too still have a cap for anything above that.
There are countries in Africa that don't have the infrastructure and don't have a cap, but still take on millions of refugees. The government's of these countries obtain BILLIONS in aid from all around the world, and the refugees live in un-humain conditions.

The Liberals did have a good solution that matched our current economic and infrastructure ability. Labor destroyed that with their debacle of a policy.
The Liberal's boat buy-back 'scheme' is just an idea and they've set aside some fictional money for it (mainly due to the problem of not being able to look at our real economic figures). Yes i disagree with it in it's current format, but the theory is sound and has worked for many other similar circumstances (i.e. how the French stop pirates).

#26 Chappy

  • Joined:03-November 04
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:2009 V36 370GT Sedan

Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:23 PM

On border protection.
On top of the points Flying raised, we also have hundreds of people dying at sea every year because of our hopeless border protection policies, not to mention the AUSTRALIAN CITIZENS in the Navy who have to risk their lives each time they board one of these leaking old boats.

#27 Flying180

  • Joined:29-March 05
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:25 PM

^^ Yep!

Also, my final comment which i forgot to add.

We should be thinking: "Build it, and they CAN come"

What a lot of people are thinking is: "Let them come, and then we'll build it".

#28 spongeboy

  • Joined:06-June 11
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:180 sx

Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:39 PM

But you're making the assumption that boat people number in the tens of thousands, which simply isn't true.. in fact conduct a study and you'll find that the number of 'legitimate' migrants and refos here outnumber boat people at least 100 fold. So again the issue of boat people isn't that bad. We have one of the lowest intake of refugees compared to any other country. We also have adequate infrastructure to house refugees at the current rate they come in.

The point I'm making is that there are bigger issues australia has to deal with that a dinghy full of sri lankans.

#29 spongeboy

  • Joined:06-June 11
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:180 sx

Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:43 PM

Neither party has provided adequate means to deal with the issue, they send processing offshore rather than streamline the process behind legal entry into australia, or worse send the boats back. At the end of the day it doesn't stop people smugglers as they get paid regardless, and the asylum seekers are none the wiser. All we are doing is palming the problem off onto others anyway, so why not focus on issues that are more important.

#30 Flying180

  • Joined:29-March 05
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:44 PM

View Postspongeboy, on 29 August 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

But you're making the assumption that boat people number in the tens of thousands, which simply isn't true.. in fact conduct a study and you'll find that the number of 'legitimate' migrants and refos here outnumber boat people at least 100 fold. So again the issue of boat people isn't that bad. We have one of the lowest intake of refugees compared to any other country. We also have adequate infrastructure to house refugees at the current rate they come in.

The point I'm making is that there are bigger issues australia has to deal with that a dinghy full of sri lankans.


I completely agree.


I wasn't assuming anything, i've seen the numbers. I was addressing the need to plan and regulate all immigrants within our border policy. Not just boat people.





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