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S15 Dump pipe question. - Hardtuned.net
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S15 Dump pipe question.

Zok's Photo Zok 27 Feb 2017

Hi there,

I'm currently looking to replace the stock dump+front pipe on myS15.
I'm not interested in polished chrome Japanese branded hardware that cost an arm and a leg. Cheap and functional
is what I'm after.


I think something like this would be ideal. Expect that the dump pipe is split, and i want a single bell mouth type.
http://justjap.com/e...nissan-s15.html


Im thinking if i buy this > http://justjap.com/e...issan-sr20.html


along with the a Mild steel front pipe, it would suit my needs.


My question is:

Is there a reason that the JJR Stainless Bell mouth Dump Pipe is so cheap? ( in comparison with a $350+ tomei)

Has anyone had any experience with the JJR?

If anyone has any suggestions/idea/knowledge im all ears.

Thanks in advance.
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Dose Pipe Sutututu's Photo Dose Pipe Sutututu 28 Feb 2017

They're ok, albeit a bit thin.

Also make sure you give it a bit of love with a hammer around the bolt holes or else you'll have issues trying to get all the nuts and bolts on.
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Varvs's Photo Varvs 28 Feb 2017

JJR stuff usually fits OK. fine for basic shit like pipes.

I have their stainless front pipe and its fine.

The reason it doesnt cost an arm and a leg like Jap stuff is because they didnt spend money on the engineers to design it.

I keep saying this, but I'll say it again. The argument for using "Quality JDM components" doesnt really hold much water when said components were designed like 10-15 years ago and not updated since. For example people using Trust/HKS turbos when there is much more efficient designs out now from garrett/Borg Warner. even the old GT series turbos are tired and shit in comparison to new stuff but you still see gronks buying 3071s or 2871s.
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(Locky)'s Photo (Locky) 28 Feb 2017

View PostVarvs, on 28 February 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

JJR stuff usually fits OK. fine for basic shit like pipes.

I have their stainless front pipe and its fine.

The reason it doesnt cost an arm and a leg like Jap stuff is because they didnt spend money on the engineers to design it.

I keep saying this, but I'll say it again. The argument for using "Quality JDM components" doesnt really hold much water when said components were designed like 10-15 years ago and not updated since. For example people using Trust/HKS turbos when there is much more efficient designs out now from garrett/Borg Warner. even the old GT series turbos are tired and shit in comparison to new stuff but you still see gronks buying 3071s or 2871s.

Trust redesigned there dump pipe like a year or 2 ago ....

Just got one as couldnt handle that being one of the last china parts on my car. Mates have delt with just jap china exhaust stuff in the past and fit pretty bad, but they are china specials so cant expect much.

New design tomei is beefy. Ordering from FR sport in US was actually 100 cheaper even after posting than when I was standing in tomeis office in august ready to by with Yen lol
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(Locky)'s Photo (Locky) 28 Feb 2017

looks the goods

Attached Image
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pmod's Photo pmod 28 Feb 2017

View PostZok, on 27 February 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

My question is:

Is there a reason that the JJR Stainless Bell mouth Dump Pipe is so cheap? ( in comparison with a $350+ tomei)

Has anyone had any experience with the JJR?

If anyone has any suggestions/idea/knowledge im all ears.

Thanks in advance.

Having done both, here are my comments:


Q. Is there a reason that the JJR Stainless Bell mouth Dump Pipe is so cheap? ( in comparison with a $350+ tomei)
Yes, there is a reason.

The JJR dump pipe is just a simple tube welded to two steel plates. It's the exact same garbage that was doing the rounds when I bought an identical one from Midnight Mods years ago, and it's total shit, due to the design and method of construction.

The $350 Tomei dump is a sculpture that has been finecast in metal, then machined and polished. The material and construction is different (machined cast metal vs welded sheet metal), the design is completely different, the flow characteristics are different and the fitment/ease-of-access is different.

Has anyone had any experience with the JJR?

I would say yes, considering the Chinese dump JJR sells is identical to the Chinese dump I bought years ago. In my opinion, the correct place to put those Chinese dump pipes is the garbage bin, not on your car. I understand that the price is very attractive, and if I was stranded somewhere and I had to install one to get home I would, but they're absolute shit. I would not install another one, even if I was given it for free.

Pros:
- Sort of cheap
- Easy to weld and repair when compared to cast metal
- Better flow than oem

Cons:
Where to start lol.

1. The studs/bolts are so close to the pipe that some nuts/bolts physically can't be installed unless the nut/bolt is already in position as you insert the dump over the fixed studs, then you tighten them up in order to slide the flange down the studs. This is annoying to do with the turbo sitting on a bench, and rage inducing when the turbo is in the car.

2. The bolt holes are far too big. Not only does this make you wonder if the gasket seal will be compromised in some way, but it means that you HAVE to use a nut with a washer, or a nut of a decent size.

3. The pipe and welds in some sections are so close that the nut binds on them, so you can't seat it properly and get a suitable torque value. Some grinding of the nut/weld and hammering of the pipe might fix this, but suffice to say it sucks big time.

4. Some nuts have no perpendicular access with a 1/4" extension and you physically can't put a socket on them. You can't rotate them with a spanner that hasn't been heavily modified with a grinder, and it takes a very, very long time to tighten up rotating the nut 1/6th of a turn and repositioning the spanner. On a bench you can tighten them, but if the turbo is on the car, it's an infuriating mission to achieve even half-assed results with uneven torque. Furthermore, the lack of spanner handle access coupled with the nut binding issues can lead to failure (i.e. the stud/bolt shears off), as happened to me. I hated every minute working with that dump pipe.

5. Due to the lack of access and uneven torque when installing this junk, it's quite likely that the gasket will blow, as also happened to me.

If anyone has any suggestions/idea/knowledge im all ears.

1. Buy one of the Tomei dumps. The ease of installation was the lynch pin for me, and there really isn't anything else on the market that has the same type of access scallops. The one drawback was that the oversized bellmouth fouled on the air conditioning drain, so I had to remove the pipe and will fab a small diversion plate to replace it.

2. Buy a front pipe that replicates the shape of the oem front pipe, and has been reduced where it mounts to the tri-flange, like the one you linked. I bought a mild steel pipe made by Blitz for my 180sx; it had a bend in the same place as the oem pipe, whereas most cheapies were dead straight. My old GKtech front pipe was fouling on the rail due to careless jacking, and so the bend was sorely needed.
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Varvs's Photo Varvs 28 Feb 2017

thats probably the only exception, though whether you'll see a gain over the old spec dump pipe is unknown.
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(Locky)'s Photo (Locky) 28 Feb 2017

Had the old version tomei dump but ended up putting that on my s15 rather than the the sil80 at the time as s15 china dump on it when i bought it was cracked the whole way around

when pulling it all off for new turbo setup during reshell it made sense to get rid of all the china and tomei is amazing compared to half the other jap stuff that is of a more generic design. Mine doesn't foul but sits very close to the aircon drain, may heat wrap it to be safe
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Zok's Photo Zok 28 Feb 2017

Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate it.

Not really what i wanted to hear, but as the saying goes, clearly "you get what you pay for".

I assume that the supplied gaskets with the Tomei dump are quality.
Can anyone see a problem with having a Tomei dump and a mild steel xforce front pipe?
I assume the flanges with line up and fit properly.
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Varvs's Photo Varvs 28 Feb 2017

not to continue playing Devils advocate but I have a GKTech dump pipe, JJR front pipe, Venom Cat, X-force mid muffler and some custome blastpipess.

its all stainless, its all china (barring the blastpipes and the cat) and it all fits with no issues and hasnt failed in 8 years. the only thing that did fail was the GKTech front pipe, because the flex joint hung so low and would constantly catch on shit.
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Zok's Photo Zok 28 Feb 2017

Thanks Varvs. Noted.

I reckon the way to go (for me anyways) is to fork the coin for a Tomei Dump and go cheap for everything after.
I like the fact that the Tomei comes with bolts and everything you need.. not that it matters but they do look shit hot as well.

The way Pmod described his difficulty's with installing a Chinese dump pipe doesn't really sound appealing.
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200VIA's Photo 200VIA 28 Feb 2017

If you decide to buy the Tomei dump pipe, have a look here:

http://www.perfectru..._10105&mcate_id[]=mct_14

Shipped for under $300.
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Zok's Photo Zok 28 Feb 2017

Thanks 200VIA.

Thats pretty decently priced. All though it might be cheaper getting it from AUS.
Looks like just jap will ship for $22.
Cheaper? only just i think.
Grand Total Incl. Tax $400.95
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200VIA's Photo 200VIA 28 Feb 2017

I got a total on Perfect Run of $293.73...
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(Locky)'s Photo (Locky) 01 Mar 2017

View PostZok, on 28 February 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate it.

Not really what i wanted to hear, but as the saying goes, clearly "you get what you pay for".

I assume that the supplied gaskets with the Tomei dump are quality.
Can anyone see a problem with having a Tomei dump and a mild steel xforce front pipe?
I assume the flanges with line up and fit properly.

Gaskets are those generic exhaust style ones I dont have a lot of faith in. I always get the pressed metal turbo to dump gaskets from like autobarn for like $15-20 and never had an issue with leak unless the dump came loose. The front to dump can get a multi layer reusable one for about $20 off ebay ect and way better than the generic $5-10 ones (just make sure you get a 2.75in one as surprisingly that's what most aftermarket dump pipes actually are. The 3in bolt pattern is slightly too far out)

After fucking around with a few exhaust combos over the years the combo im going with this car is a tad more expensive but should last, not hang low and give a nice note.
Tomei dump pipe
Moonface racing oval front pipe for heaps of clearance. These are super hard to find but something like the HPI twin front is what I had before so doesnt hang low like most china. Can be picked up 2nd hand for reasonable price
100cell cat and custom cat back made to muffler in stainless
Big chunky Jap muffler 2nd hand like Fijibitoso, kakamoto, 5zigen ect can usually be found cheap when rest of cat back is mangled. I managed to pick up a 3in Nismo one for mine, befoer that did the same thing with a kakimoto one and sounded rad
Decent gaskets

Some parts I already had but could put together something similar for 1k-1250 or so. Its is a bit more comparing to a china turbo back setup, but it wont hang low like all the off the shelf stuff. The chunky jap mufflers that are usually on the more quite exhausts with a mid muffler, but with just the one at the end they give a nice note and not obnoxiously loud
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(Locky)'s Photo (Locky) 01 Mar 2017

And yeah
check RHD japan, perfect run and FR sport ... they were all at least $50 cheaper than buying from aus if not more.
Just jap are a rip off generally for anything that isnt china
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pmod's Photo pmod 01 Mar 2017

View Post(Locky), on 01 March 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

And yeah
check RHD japan, perfect run and FR sport ... they were all at least $50 cheaper than buying from aus if not more.
Just jap are a rip off generally for anything that isnt china

Even for China parts they're expensive compared to Hong Kong eBay/Alibaba sellers. Where they're good is when you desperately need the part 'today'.
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200VIA's Photo 200VIA 01 Mar 2017

Locky makes a good point about gaskets.
The turbo to dump gasket is particularly important.
I used a genuine Nissan gasket here for peace of mind.
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Varvs's Photo Varvs 01 Mar 2017

View Postpmod, on 01 March 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

View Post(Locky), on 01 March 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

And yeah
check RHD japan, perfect run and FR sport ... they were all at least $50 cheaper than buying from aus if not more.
Just jap are a rip off generally for anything that isnt china

Even for China parts they're expensive compared to Hong Kong eBay/Alibaba sellers. Where they're good is when you desperately need the part 'today'.

When I lived in the shire, there were many saturdays calling Just Jap from under my car requesting them to stay open 10 minutes extra so I could race in and get a silicone joiner/FMIC pipe/exhaust/gasket/etc
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Zok's Photo Zok 01 Mar 2017

View Post200VIA, on 28 February 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

I got a total on Perfect Run of $293.73...

I stand corrected. Thats a pretty good deal!

Thanks for all the info locky, very informative.

I'm glad i bothered to make this thread, seems like everyone on this forum has a wealth of knowledge.

For anyone interested I will order a Tomei dump from Japan, and get a local exhaust shop to make me up a custom front pipe.

thanks again everyone!
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pmod's Photo pmod 02 Mar 2017

View PostVarvs, on 01 March 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

View Postpmod, on 01 March 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

View Post(Locky), on 01 March 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

And yeah
check RHD japan, perfect run and FR sport ... they were all at least $50 cheaper than buying from aus if not more.
Just jap are a rip off generally for anything that isnt china

Even for China parts they're expensive compared to Hong Kong eBay/Alibaba sellers. Where they're good is when you desperately need the part 'today'.

When I lived in the shire, there were many saturdays calling Just Jap from under my car requesting them to stay open 10 minutes extra so I could race in and get a silicone joiner/FMIC pipe/exhaust/gasket/etc

For sure man, I've had to do the same thing early morning Saturday and go there from Parramatta haha. When you desperately need a part, the price becomes less of a point of contention.
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Wizard's Photo Wizard 03 Mar 2017

 Varvs, on 28 February 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

thats probably the only exception, though whether you'll see a gain over the old spec dump pipe is unknown.

I always thought maintaining pipe size = maintains flow, changing pipe size would increase turbulence and ruin flow

+

As exhaust gas cools, it contracts, so to maintain velocity, you would shrink the exhaust as it gets further from the turbo

BUT

Read a big spiel from a garrett engineer (was on a different forum) . You want the biggest possible dump pipe you can, the wide open space will create a vacuum of sorts, so as each pulse of exhaust gas comes out of the tiny hole in the turbo, it works to pull the next pulse out. Which is why race cars will have 4 or 4.5 or 5" dump pipes, as big as they can physically fit. Also why noone makes dump pipes the same size as the actual port in the turbine housing. The new Tomei dump pipe would probably make noticeable differences on a dyno, not sure if your pants would tell the difference.
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