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Done compound beginners routine. Looking for split 

45 replies to this topic

#1 -**wHiStLe**-

  • Joined:02-November 06
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:S15, R32, R33

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:04 AM

Hey guys.
Been lifting on and off for a fair while.
Always have done the beginners routine and have done so this time for 3-4 months.
Starting to really plateau I feel.

Do you guys think it's time for a split?
Ideally I'd want a 3 day split because I've made available time around a 3 day compound routine.

Just looking for best progression so after the best info please.
If you think I should stick at the compound routine for a while longer then tell me.

After more size and appearance rather than trying to be a power lifter.

If you guys agree with moving to a split, can anyone recommend a good full body split that I can do at home.
I have barbell, dumbells, cage and bench.

#2 Dr. Cranium

  • Joined:23-May 07
  • Location:Australia QLD

Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:44 PM

If you want to split do a push-pull-legs type program.

Push

Bench press - 5*10
Single DB overhead press - 6*4
Pullovers - 5*20
Dips - 5 *max

Pull
SLDL - 5*8
BB row - 5*6
BB power shrugs - 5*5
Chins - 5*max

Legs
Squats - 1*20, 1*10
Lunges - 5*10
Step ups (whilst holding DB's) - 5*15
Overhead squats - 2*10

#3 SRS13

  • Joined:10-April 04
  • Location:Australia NSW

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:21 PM

If your going for appearance over strength than I would stop the 'skinny guy' routine for a while and focus on body parts so you can target (isolate) areas that need it the most.

Do you want an entire body routine that can be done in the 3 days or are you happy to train for 3 days and continue the routine?

If entire body in 3 days (which would be hard but doable if you have an on/off/on/off/on split).

Day 1: Chest / Biceps - 4 / 3 or 5 / 3 (being number of exercises)
Day 2: Legs / Shoulders - 4 / 3 or 5 / 4 (this will be a hard session)
Day 3: Back / Triceps - 4 / 3 or 5 / 3

The above with a combination of main compound and isolation exercises for each body part.

If a continuing routine over 3 days you could split it like this;

Day 1: Chest / Biceps
Day 2: Shoulders & traps or Triceps
Day:3 Legs
Day 4: Back & traps or tri's
Day 1: etc
Day 2: etc

#4 -**wHiStLe**-

  • Joined:02-November 06
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:S15, R32, R33

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:41 PM

Those are all obviously work sets yea? Not including warm up.

#5 DeluxeJZS

  • Joined:01-March 06
  • Location:Australia SA
  • Car:95 JZS147 Aristo

Posted 07 August 2012 - 05:24 PM

View PostSRS13, on 07 August 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Day 1: Chest / Biceps - 4 / 3 or 5 / 3 (being number of exercises)
Day 2: Legs / Shoulders - 4 / 3 or 5 / 4 (this will be a hard session)
Day 3: Back / Triceps - 4 / 3 or 5 / 3
Ive been told if a 3 day split you should do
Chest / Tri'ss
Back / Bi's
Legs / Shoulders
and chuck in some Abs whenever possible!!
But yeah not sure which way is "correct"....

Anyways I do a 5 day split like
Legs(and Abs)
Chest
Back
Shoulders
Arms

#6 Shark

  • Joined:14-April 05
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 07 August 2012 - 06:26 PM

my split is:
Day 1: Chest/Tri's
Day 2: Shoulders/Bi's
Day 3: Back/Legs
and repeat. Rest on sunday.
Can just do it and have rest day in between each 2 groups, and rest sat/sunday aswell.

Edited by Shark, 07 August 2012 - 06:27 PM.


#7 SRS13

  • Joined:10-April 04
  • Location:Australia NSW

Posted 07 August 2012 - 07:41 PM

You can split it anyway you like really but we dont normally do chest and tri's together as you are already working tri's during your chest workout so it really smashes them - little too much for me!

Back and legs I never do together as its hard work doing deadlifts and squats in the same routine as we do deadlifts for back although it does essentially the whole body.

For the last 3months we have been doing

Monday - Chest (5 or6)
Tuesday - Legs (5 or 6)
Wednesday - Biceps + Triceps (3 + 3)
Thursday - off
Friday - Shoulders + traps (5 + 3)
Saturday - Back (5 or 6)
Sunday - off

We are just about to change it up.

#8 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:16 PM

LOL @s13 LOLOLOL whistle, completely disregard his comments.
With back exercises how the fk can you not train biceps. Almost all compound bak exercises involve bi's. It's the secondary function of back. And to train with tri's?
Dr cranium is okay if you want to train for size. But it will have to be big days an I'll prob put another couple of chest exercises.
I'm not sure what routine you are on ATM but you shooing really be plateuing if your doing it right.
Tbh it would be best or 4 day split if you can find time. E.g
Day 1: chest and tri's
2: legs
3: shoulders
4: back and bi

But if you don't have time and want 3 day.
Chest and tri's
Legs and shoulders. (you can try deads which involes lower back on this day as it involves a fair bit a traps and a little posterior delts.
And bicep and back and fk deads on bak day.

Stick with the compound exercises and these will give you better overall growth.
Isolation exercises are usually for a little more advanced BB. But do your flys, pull overs etc what I mean by this is isolating tri's/bi's/ forearms quads to hams Etc
Just stick to 4 sets 1 warm up 3 hard working ones. 4-6 exercises. Ultimately 4 sets is optium unless your training for endurance.

Edited by Rasian, 07 August 2012 - 08:25 PM.


#9 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:22 PM

And at s13 LoL 8-9 exercises. How long do you want to stay in the gym for?
You do realise the optimum time is 45min to 1:15. Otherwise your body doesn't have sufficient glycogen stores and your just wasting your time

If your after bigger growth. Hit 8-12 reps for bigger muscle groups e.g chest.
And 15 reps for smaller group e.g calves
Tbh. Gym is only like 20%-30%. Your diet is the
Most important and sleep is almost just as important as training. Get 8-12 hrs of sleep

If you are Plateuing. Just do your normal big 4, deads, squat bench and Miltarys. And do what dorian Yates did. Do different exercises each gym sesh. It's also much more motivational than having a set routine.
Just eat hard, sleep hard and train hard :D

Edited by Rasian, 07 August 2012 - 09:05 PM.


#10 -**wHiStLe**-

  • Joined:02-November 06
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:S15, R32, R33

Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:21 PM

Right now I'm on the standard;
Bench
Military
SLDL
Bent row
Squat
Curliesssss
and some days I work on the muscles behind traps to pull my chest back to correct posture.

Can you guys give me some exercises for the split because I don't know much more than compound lifts.

#11 SRS13

  • Joined:10-April 04
  • Location:Australia NSW

Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:07 PM

Yeah righto Rasian, completely disregard my comments and the basic difference you have suggested is to swap tri's for bi's.

We train this way for the exact reason you mention. When training back, you work your bi's hard so we don't see the point in pushing them even harder that night and overwork them so we hit a different body part.

The option was given to do either 7 or up to 9 exercises, hardly overdoing it for 2 body parts should take just over an hour or so.

#12 Dr. Cranium

  • Joined:23-May 07
  • Location:Australia QLD

Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:18 PM

But in the end, if you are doing bench press with 100+kg, how much more tearing is 10kg flies going to do?

You can do all the isolation you like, but in the end you are eating into recovery from the compound lifts, 1 isolation is fine but when you are doing 3-5 excercises per body part and only one compound lift you are only eating into recovery with the final 1-3 excercises.

#13 Marko

  • Joined:30-October 05
  • Location:Australia ACT

Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:59 PM

Try super setting the isolation after the compound. Bench press super set with flies. Mp with side raises, bb row with reverse flies.

#14 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:36 AM

My days are as follows. and these are exercises you can do
1: legs (usually I hit quads hard on this day and little ham)
- I'll always start with squats. Sometimes front then back.
-legpress (close and wide), leg extension, lunges, weighted step ups, leg curls etc....
2: chest- always start with bench unless ur also doing incline then start with incline.
- incline, decline, flat barbell bench, then u have dumbbell, flys Inc dec and flat, cables (same), push ups etc. Wouldn't recommend decline though or do them 2 sesh every 8-10 weeks.
- arms- push pull factor fairly straight forward just keep in mind don't havethr attitude curls get girls. Tris are 2/3 of ur arm. If
You want big arms do ur fking tri's.
- shoulders- start with standing Orr seated military press. later raises, reverse flys, up right rows, shoulder press etc,
- back- I start with SL deads on these days. But if u dont do deads, start with Chin ups, t bar, bent over row, rows, pull overs, lat pull down etc.

Don't use straps ever. 1. U have a vagina if u do. And 2. Just fling train ur forearm muscles so u don't need them. Use a weight which u can grip and u wil adapt to it.
Calves- train them 1-2 per week.( tbh I can't really advise much on calves mine are fling shut, that's why I've just pulled out on BB compt too.)
But because ur forearms, calves (they think bis too) are everyday muscles, u can train them eversay if u want. Do 15 reps of optimum growth.
Drop sets- you do drop sets for optimum micro trauma. Most times when u do about 5-6 reps u cannot tear all the muscle fibers. Drop sets allow further muscular tear psritcularly to the smaller ones that was missed in ur exercise.
Super sets- I superset calves on ches, shoulders day. Idk what u like to do but that's me.
U can also super set same muscle e.g flat bench to incline flys. It stimulates further tear same as drop.

Edited by Rasian, 08 August 2012 - 06:39 AM.


#15 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:44 AM

Depending on what u are training for will depend on rest time. And dr cranium I'd right. Do compound over isolation. Or put 1-2 isolation in that's it.
Ultimately, beat is 2 Ina half
Min rests. Which would recover roughly 80%atpcp stores. This will get the best llifts out
Of ur exrcises. But I rest 1-1 1/2 and that's okay. Which it's about 60-65%

#16 steveP

  • Joined:05-February 05
  • Location:Australia SA
  • Car:Galant VR4

Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:54 AM

View PostSRS13, on 07 August 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

We train this way for the exact reason you mention. When training back, you work your bi's hard so we don't see the point in pushing them even harder that night and overwork them so we hit a different body part.
Isn't that essentially the point of going to the gym, to over work the muscles.

#17 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 08 August 2012 - 12:38 PM

View PoststeveP, on 08 August 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

View PostSRS13, on 07 August 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

We train this way for the exact reason you mention. When training back, you work your bi's hard so we don't see the point in pushing them even harder that night and overwork them so we hit a different body part.
Isn't that essentially the point of going to the gym, to over work the muscles.

This is why I hate online fkers that don't know what they're doing and gives advice.

#18 SRS13

  • Joined:10-April 04
  • Location:Australia NSW

Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:50 PM

View PoststeveP, on 08 August 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

View PostSRS13, on 07 August 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

We train this way for the exact reason you mention. When training back, you work your bi's hard so we don't see the point in pushing them even harder that night and overwork them so we hit a different body part.
Isn't that essentially the point of going to the gym, to over work the muscles.

To 'overwork' the muscles... no mate. It's good to work the muscles and work them hard but not 'overwork' them.

#19 Mandi

  • Joined:24-January 05
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:180 & R33

Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:14 PM

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

View PoststeveP, on 08 August 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

View PostSRS13, on 07 August 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

We train this way for the exact reason you mention. When training back, you work your bi's hard so we don't see the point in pushing them even harder that night and overwork them so we hit a different body part.
Isn't that essentially the point of going to the gym, to over work the muscles.

This is why I hate online fkers that don't know what they're doing and gives advice.

People taking time out to give advice is part of forums. If you disagree with what SRS13 is saying that is no issue, being a rude prick about is however an issue.

I suggest next time you post have a think about what you're saying or I will make it so you don't get to have your opinion voiced on these forums.

#20 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:19 PM

View PostMandi, on 08 August 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

View PoststeveP, on 08 August 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

View PostSRS13, on 07 August 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

We train this way for the exact reason you mention. When training back, you work your bi's hard so we don't see the point in pushing them even harder that night and overwork them so we hit a different body part.
Isn't that essentially the point of going to the gym, to over work the muscles.

This is why I hate online fkers that don't know what they're doing and gives advice.

People taking time out to give advice is part of forums. If you disagree with what SRS13 is saying that is no issue, being a rude prick about is however an issue.

I suggest next time you post have a think about what you're saying or I will make it so you don't get to have your opinion voiced on these forums.

Well mandi, that's completely at your discretion. People ask advice on forums to get the correct answer and if people who do not have the knowledge advise the subject matter, then ultimately they are the ones being a prick. There is a distinction between suggestions and advice. People do take advice
On forums, and thus,you also want to correct advice, not someone who has no qualifications or just talking shut out of their arse. I think it's rude to give the wrong advice, not correcting it.

#21 SRS13

  • Joined:10-April 04
  • Location:Australia NSW

Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:15 PM

Mate, ffs pull your head in.

On the subject matter, this has been discussed many times over and there are a lot of people who train the way I do and lots that train the way you do. I have trained both ways and will continue to switch them around.

A simple search pulled these results; the first has a poll where 400 said chest + tri's and 300 or so said chest + bi's...

http://forum.bodybui...t=805703&page=1

http://www.elitefitn...eps-489562.html

http://forum.bodybui...35491191&page=1

http://www.ironmagaz...ck-triceps.html

http://supplementrev...php?topic=616.0

Despite what you think, it doesn't mean you are right and the rest of the world is wrong. Its what works for each person. Any semi-intelligent person should realise this.

That I dont have an issue with - your farkin smartass, heroic attitude I do have an issue with. Generally I like to give people benefit of the doubt but you sound like an absolute wanker.. and that's most likely cause you are.

#22 Mandi

  • Joined:24-January 05
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:180 & R33

Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:44 PM

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

View PostMandi, on 08 August 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

View PoststeveP, on 08 August 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

View PostSRS13, on 07 August 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

We train this way for the exact reason you mention. When training back, you work your bi's hard so we don't see the point in pushing them even harder that night and overwork them so we hit a different body part.
Isn't that essentially the point of going to the gym, to over work the muscles.

This is why I hate online fkers that don't know what they're doing and gives advice.

People taking time out to give advice is part of forums. If you disagree with what SRS13 is saying that is no issue, being a rude prick about is however an issue.

I suggest next time you post have a think about what you're saying or I will make it so you don't get to have your opinion voiced on these forums.

Well mandi, that's completely at your discretion. People ask advice on forums to get the correct answer and if people who do not have the knowledge advise the subject matter, then ultimately they are the ones being a prick. There is a distinction between suggestions and advice. People do take advice
On forums, and thus,you also want to correct advice, not someone who has no qualifications or just talking shut out of their arse. I think it's rude to give the wrong advice, not correcting it.

*sigh* My point is, addressing people in the manner you had is NOT on, difference of opinions whether correct, incorrect or just not seeing eye to eye is not the problem as I have already stated. The way in which you talk about people is.

#23 Dr. Cranium

  • Joined:23-May 07
  • Location:Australia QLD

Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:56 PM

View PostSRS13, on 08 August 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Mate, ffs pull your head in.

On the subject matter, this has been discussed many times over and there are a lot of people who train the way I do and lots that train the way you do. I have trained both ways and will continue to switch them around.

A simple search pulled these results; the first has a poll where 400 said chest + tri's and 300 or so said chest + bi's...

http://forum.bodybui...t=805703&page=1

http://www.elitefitn...eps-489562.html

http://forum.bodybui...35491191&page=1

http://www.ironmagaz...ck-triceps.html

http://supplementrev...php?topic=616.0

Despite what you think, it doesn't mean you are right and the rest of the world is wrong. Its what works for each person. Any semi-intelligent person should realise this.

That I dont have an issue with - your farkin smartass, heroic attitude I do have an issue with. Generally I like to give people benefit of the doubt but you sound like an absolute wanker.. and that's most likely cause you are.

looking at it from a purely physiological standpoint, i think you would be better off doing chest + bis simply because you can use more weight and reps for bis and tris doing than separate from their respective main muscle group.

My tris are shattered after heavy bench/overhead work and if i trained like that i would do them on a separate day to maximize weight used and reps.

Sorrye for the post structure, on my phone

#24 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:10 PM

Mandi, dont you think he is rude?
and mate, I act like a hero because I am a hero.
Im in my last year of a double degree. I got a 99.1 TER score which is an OP 1 and overloading at uni, ultimately, I am 3 in a half yrs ahead of anyone at the same level as me. Im 20 years old who can squat 2.5 my weight, dead 3 times, bench 145. and weigh like 30 kg more than you.
Wanker, no- smart ass, yes, maybe even a little bit of an asshole. But I drilled you because of your stupid PM message. Look, I have no problem with people training chest and bi's together, I do laugh at them but hey, it's your body.
As to trying to insult my intelligence, Im pretty sure its like comparing GOD to an insect.

#25 SRS13

  • Joined:10-April 04
  • Location:Australia NSW

Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:49 PM

I sent the PM message after you made your online f**ker comment so don't use that as an excuse for your behaviour. I also deleted it before I thought you read it as I did not want to get sucked into this crap with a kid... (I stuffed that up).

GOD!!???? Your saying your like a God??? lol well that will do me mate.

#26 ONE_VIA_S13

  • Joined:14-April 05
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:350Z

Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Im 20 years old

And, I'll stop reading there.

#27 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:35 PM

View PostONE_VIA_S13, on 08 August 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Im 20 years old
Yeh I understand what your saying. 20 yrs old and I know nothing yet. Exp is growth right and I still have a lot
To learn. I know I got a pretty bad attitude especially online. But my attitude stems from having a fling hard arse life and prevailing. And I just don't like that dick. And I only put my age there to tell him that a kid is better than him in almost everyway. I mean it's the ultimate insult isn't it? Being younger and far
More
Achieved

In respect to the first s13.
I said you insulting my intelligence is like god to and insect.

And, I'll stop reading there.

Edited by Rasian, 08 August 2012 - 08:50 PM.


#28 Mandi

  • Joined:24-January 05
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:180 & R33

Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:56 PM

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

View PostONE_VIA_S13, on 08 August 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Im 20 years old
Yeh I understand what your saying. 20 yrs old and I know nothing yet. Exp is growth right and I still have a lot
To learn. I know I got a pretty bad attitude especially online. But my attitude stems from having a fling hard arse life and prevailing. And I just don't like that dick. And I only put my age there to tell him that a kid is better than him in almost everyway. I mean it's the ultimate insult isn't it? Being younger and far
More
Achieved

In respect to the first s13.
I said you insulting my intelligence is like god to and insect.

And, I'll stop reading there.

I've had enough, if you can't keep your bad attitude off the forums I'll do it for you, last warning.
Play nice.

#29 Rasian

  • Joined:24-September 10
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:11 PM

View PostMandi, on 08 August 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

View PostONE_VIA_S13, on 08 August 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

View PostRasian, on 08 August 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Im 20 years old
Yeh I understand what your saying. 20 yrs old and I know nothing yet. Exp is growth right and I still have a lot
To learn. I know I got a pretty bad attitude especially online. But my attitude stems from having a fling hard arse life and prevailing. And I just don't like that dick. And I only put my age there to tell him that a kid is better than him in almost everyway. I mean it's the ultimate insult isn't it? Being younger and far
More
Achieved

In respect to the first s13.
I said you insulting my intelligence is like god to and insect.

And, I'll stop reading there.

I've had enough, if you can't keep your bad attitude off the forums I'll do it for you, last warning.
Play nice.

Only for you lol. soz srs13 wont make your life redundant anymore

#30 Shark

  • Joined:14-April 05
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:36 PM

wtf is this shit...

Posted Image

Edited by Shark, 08 August 2012 - 09:36 PM.






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