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Toyota 86 - How does it stack up? - Hardtuned.net

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Toyota 86 - How does it stack up? 

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#1 keyhole150

  • Joined:23-December 09
  • Location:Australia SA
  • Car:Type X

Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:43 AM

Taken from http://www.caradvice...rain&medium=cpc


A leaked chart shows how the 86 stacks up with a current selection of similar modern vehicles. It also details what sort of market it expects to sell to and gives more detailed information. All this information is for the Australia version of the 86 which is due out in June.

Chart:
Posted Image

I'm a little surprised as a household income of $150k I'd say is pretty high but that might just be me. What do other people think?

#2 Biggie

  • Joined:10-May 07
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:96' Type X

Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:04 AM

expectedto sell between high 30's for base spec to mid 40's for top spec... average market they are shooting to sell to are 35 to 49 year olds....

seriusly toyota ffs are you ocmpletly missing hwat this car is meant to be all about

#3 antonio

  • Joined:26-September 05
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:S14

Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:39 AM

It doesn't really matter what Toyota believe the demographic of purchasers are/will be.

Its better that they aim the vehicle to a market of people who have money and can afford it, then aiming at young kids and putting off the higher market..

You can piss off an older person by saying the car is made for the young generation into them not wanting to buy it.
You cant piss off the younger generation in saying the car is made for the older generation as a younger person will still buy it knowing what the car really is.

I doubt you will get many people buying this car and knowing anything about a Hachiroku or Initial-D.

#4 Spazo

  • Joined:27-September 06
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:JDM S15

Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:47 AM

The lotus is the only car on that graph with the right ratio. Shame they're such a rip. The 86 would look better with steelies TBH and I think they had a good opportunity to give it a cool engine but they chose to make it another corolla. It might handle okay but really, they should have given it a bit of go.

I think toyota could be a bit off with their marketing prediction but then I've really got no idea. Us kids on our forums might think these cars are aimed at us because we're always talking about them but then most of us can't drop 40k on a new car, we mostly buy old 2nd hand performance cars and there's nothing in that for toyota/nissan/subaru/mitsu. White collar I'd agree, because the blue collar dudes get fords/holdens in fear of being called faggots.

And as for its 'drifter' appeal... very few can drift an underpowered car on public roads so it will fall into the ricer category at least until it becomes affordable enough for the hoons to get their hands on it. Mehhhh.

#5 Varvs

  • Joined:21-December 07
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:97 180sx Type X

Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:08 AM

The target demographic is the demographic that has money. they will be buying it for their kids or as their weekend car for personal use.

there is literally no point in targetting a car at 18-20yos because they are dirt poor.

#6 shobotan

  • Joined:24-November 09
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:RPS13

Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:46 PM

I think a lot of people have got the wrong impression of these cars, and there is probably going to be quite a few disappointed owners who will sell 'em off, label them overhyped after they realise how hard you're gonna have to drive them.
Proper driving skills are needed to get the best out of them, much like the original '86.

#7 TN

  • Joined:31-October 02
  • Location:Australia SA
  • Car:S15, S14A

Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:53 PM

the first BRZ has just landed here in adelaide for crash testing

http://www.facebook.com/jarvisadelaide

#8 neil_se

  • Joined:24-April 03
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:S14A

Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:38 PM

Nah, first BRZ arrived 5th Feb

Posted Image

#9 180sxnit

  • Joined:16-November 05
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:S15

Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:50 PM

saw a brz 2 weeks ago blue one gather it was a testing car as they are not out yet

#10 Rolled Cambers

  • Joined:14-July 09
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:Nissan Silvia s13.

Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:35 PM

I just don't understand why 3 different car companies shared 1 very similar if not exact body style?
Interior is almost the exact same too!

And for 40k I'd buy a bmw.
Such bullshit rip off prices we have in Australia.

The 86 isn't even that special, could have been so much better but they chose to dumb it down on purpose instead of giving it some attitude.

#11 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:05 AM

Very rtue. There is a lot i would throw 40K at before this. Even used cars. But to be fair.......most of us drive cars that have more power and go than most resonable priced cars anyway. Plus handling mods we all do, so its no surprise that cars like this will be a bit of a let down performance wise.
It goes to show the lack of imagination and creativity, that all these car companies have to do joint ventures these days. I think its gay that Toyota and Subaru have pretty much identicle cars. I thought it was gay when Holden and Toyota did it with the Commo/Lexen, and the Apollo/Camry.

#12 neil_se

  • Joined:24-April 03
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:S14A

Posted 17 May 2012 - 05:02 PM

If it wasn't for being a shared Subaru/Toyota development it probably wouldn't have happened. It think its great that they've put themselves out there rather than just shelve a risky project amidst a GFC. It'll do fairly well, I'm sure we'd all love to see it at 30k but if they slash 80% off their margin then they'd need to sell 5x as many for the same profit. Hell, if I wanted a new car on a work lease then I'd probably go for it.

#13 Rolled Cambers

  • Joined:14-July 09
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:Nissan Silvia s13.

Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:01 PM

Do the different companies share the same engine as well?
Very much the same as commodore/lexcen?

#14 neil_se

  • Joined:24-April 03
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:S14A

Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:56 PM

Back then it was just so they had a car to fill that segment of the market (large car for Toyota Lexcen, Medium for Holden Apollo, Small for Holden Nova). Plenty of car manufacturers share platforms these days (maybe not as obvious as the BRZ/86 though) like Ford Fiesta/Mazda 2, Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50, VW Toureg/Audi Q7/Porsche Cayenne, etc.

"Subaru and Toyota deny that their respective BRZ and 86 sports cars are a badge-engineering exercise, pointing out both of them were involved in the development of the car from the outset.
"We've made no secret of it,'' the managing director of Subaru Australia, Nick Senior, says. ''From day one it's been very transparent that Toyota and Subaru have an alliance and part of the alliance was to produce a low-cost, fun sports car that had rear-wheel-drive and was aimed at attracting a younger buyer.''

"We're not fooling anyone and no one is going to be fooled by it. It is a blend of the strengths of the companies."

The divisional general manager for marketing and sales at Toyota, Matt Callachor, agrees. "We have had heavy engineering involvement in this car. It's not a badge engineering situation," he says."


#15 The New Guy

  • Joined:09-May 04
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:06 PM

For 40 i'd wait awhile and but the current shape e92 i think bmw 325 or 335 as these cars are awesome. The 335 comes twin turbs.

#16 nismoman

  • Joined:19-May 06
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:1992 Nissan S13 Silvia SR20DET

Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:13 PM

Yep 2 litre NA boxer engine both in Toyota and Subaru models.

#17 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:27 PM

WHat would their reasoning be for not releasing a boosted model? Cost? Or is there a boosted version that wont make it to Aus?

Edited by greens14, 17 May 2012 - 10:28 PM.


#18 Varvs

  • Joined:21-December 07
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:97 180sx Type X

Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:40 PM

Theres no boosted model because the engine has a compression ratio of 12:1. However, the FA20 engine that is in the 86 is being used in next years liberty and impreza, and with a subaru developed direct injection system (the 86 uses a toyota system with both port and direct injection - 8 injectors total) and it is turbocharged, and produces around 300HP.

so, 2013/14, you will see a turbo 86 i reckon.


View PostRolled Cambers, on 16 May 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I just don't understand why 3 different car companies shared 1 very similar if not exact body style?
Interior is almost the exact same too!

And for 40k I'd buy a bmw.
Such bullshit rip off prices we have in Australia.

The 86 isn't even that special, could have been so much better but they chose to dumb it down on purpose instead of giving it some attitude.


Please show me a brand new BMW you can buy for 40 grand.

#19 The New Guy

  • Joined:09-May 04
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:57 PM

View PostVarvs, on 17 May 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Theres no boosted model because the engine has a compression ratio of 12:1. However, the FA20 engine that is in the 86 is being used in next years liberty and impreza, and with a subaru developed direct injection system (the 86 uses a toyota system with both port and direct injection - 8 injectors total) and it is turbocharged, and produces around 300HP.

so, 2013/14, you will see a turbo 86 i reckon.


View PostRolled Cambers, on 16 May 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I just don't understand why 3 different car companies shared 1 very similar if not exact body style?
Interior is almost the exact same too!

And for 40k I'd buy a bmw.
Such bullshit rip off prices we have in Australia.

The 86 isn't even that special, could have been so much better but they chose to dumb it down on purpose instead of giving it some attitude.


Please show me a brand new BMW you can buy for 40 grand.

Why would you want to buy a new car anyway, unless it's for tax purposes because if the 86 is 40k now it would be worth 30k next year

#20 Varvs

  • Joined:21-December 07
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:97 180sx Type X

Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:05 AM

welll yeah, but at the same time buying a second hard car @40k is not the same as buying a brand new car at 40K. its an unfair comparison.

you can buy an Evo 9 for around 40K, but youre not getting to choose colour, options, and you definitely dont get a warranty. you get it however the seller is selling it.

#21 headlock

  • Joined:19-January 05
  • Location:Australia SA
  • Car:Evolution IX

Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:31 PM

you can get a 9 for 30k these days. then add 10k worth of mods :)

BRZ / 86 seems ok to me, but needs more power. Apparently the engine has no torque either - it's all above 5k. Which would be fun when you're ringing the crap out of it but what about the rest of the time?

#22 Rolled Cambers

  • Joined:14-July 09
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:Nissan Silvia s13.

Posted 18 May 2012 - 06:18 PM

View PostVarvs, on 17 May 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Theres no boosted model because the engine has a compression ratio of 12:1. However, the FA20 engine that is in the 86 is being used in next years liberty and impreza, and with a subaru developed direct injection system (the 86 uses a toyota system with both port and direct injection - 8 injectors total) and it is turbocharged, and produces around 300HP.

so, 2013/14, you will see a turbo 86 i reckon.


View PostRolled Cambers, on 16 May 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I just don't understand why 3 different car companies shared 1 very similar if not exact body style?
Interior is almost the exact same too!

And for 40k I'd buy a bmw.
Such bullshit rip off prices we have in Australia.

The 86 isn't even that special, could have been so much better but they chose to dumb it down on purpose instead of giving it some attitude.


Please show me a brand new BMW you can buy for 40 grand.

Does it say anywhere I'd buy a NEW BMW?
No.
You can get a very nice BMW for $40k easily.
Or go auctions and get it even cheaper.

#23 tinto

  • Joined:09-February 10
  • Location:Australia WA
  • Car:S15 / R36

Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:05 PM

View Postneil_se, on 17 May 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

Back then it was just so they had a car to fill that segment of the market (large car for Toyota Lexcen, Medium for Holden Apollo, Small for Holden Nova). Plenty of car manufacturers share platforms these days (maybe not as obvious as the BRZ/86 though) like Ford Fiesta/Mazda 2, Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50, VW Toureg/Audi Q7/Porsche Cayenne, etc

Ford own Mazda, and VW owns Audi and a big chunk of Porsche, so platform sharing there is pretty normal and yet the models all look very different. I think it is an accepted part of the new car market. I believe Renault own Nissan, but I'm not sure what they share other than engines.
What is the relationship between Toyota and Subaru at an ownership level? It is a fascinating partnership.
I love the fact that this car exists. Everything with a similar spirit (mx5, S2000) has no roof and suffers from the stigma that goes with it.

Edited by tinto, 18 May 2012 - 07:05 PM.


#24 EnFlaMEd

  • Joined:06-January 05
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:19 PM

platform sharing has been happening at least since the late 60s. I am definitely going to test drive an 86 when they are available here but it will have to stack up against my Soarer which I'll probably have to sell to buy one. If it gives me more joy then the Soarer then I will buy one. If not, I'll keep the Soarer.

#25 neil_se

  • Joined:24-April 03
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:S14A

Posted 18 May 2012 - 08:39 PM

Comparing new car prices with used cars available is pointless, car makers can't spec and price cars to try and match depreciating prices of a used car originally of higher price point. For the cost of a 370z I could buy a used R34 GTR with 25k in mods, do you think Nissan cares? It still won't come with a warranty and I can't put it on a lease.

#26 Varvs

  • Joined:21-December 07
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:97 180sx Type X

Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:26 PM

View PostRolled Cambers, on 18 May 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

View PostVarvs, on 17 May 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Theres no boosted model because the engine has a compression ratio of 12:1. However, the FA20 engine that is in the 86 is being used in next years liberty and impreza, and with a subaru developed direct injection system (the 86 uses a toyota system with both port and direct injection - 8 injectors total) and it is turbocharged, and produces around 300HP.

so, 2013/14, you will see a turbo 86 i reckon.


View PostRolled Cambers, on 16 May 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I just don't understand why 3 different car companies shared 1 very similar if not exact body style?
Interior is almost the exact same too!

And for 40k I'd buy a bmw.
Such bullshit rip off prices we have in Australia.

The 86 isn't even that special, could have been so much better but they chose to dumb it down on purpose instead of giving it some attitude.


Please show me a brand new BMW you can buy for 40 grand.

Does it say anywhere I'd buy a NEW BMW?
No.
You can get a very nice BMW for $40k easily.
Or go auctions and get it even cheaper.


youre comparing apples to oranges.

New car price will never ever get you the same performance/feature ratio as used.


its the same argument as saying your 80 grand HSV with 50K in mods will blow the shit out of a porsche. go and spend the same money modifying the porsche and tell me which one is faster then.


Level playing field.

#27 Rolled Cambers

  • Joined:14-July 09
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:Nissan Silvia s13.

Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:42 PM

Wtf you can get a bmw with 10-20,000ks on it for about 40k.
Doesn't have to be 2012.

I'm not even talking about performance.

You and I and everyone else knows 40k for the 86 is overpriced.

#28 darkone

  • Joined:10-November 05
  • Location:Australia SA
  • Car:Silvia

Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:02 PM

It's not overpriced considering it's a brand new car.. You can't get much else in terms of sports cars brand new for that price.

That said, I would still rather have a used 350z or 370z

#29 fiend.

  • Joined:24-April 05
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:34 PM

I think it's fine at it's price point. It's a launch price for a new car..S15s, 300s, Supras etc were more than that new. I think the Rx-8 may have been too.

All that matters is that it's a good base.

#30 Flying180

  • Joined:29-March 05
  • Location:Australia SA

Posted 19 May 2012 - 06:11 AM

Low $40k's is a good price i believe. Look at all other sports cars on the market at the moment.

Comparing a brand new car to a $40k BMW with 10-20k on the clock is stupid.
If you were to depreciate the car, for 20k km you could depreciate over $10k. Therefore in a years time the 86 with the same km's would only be $30k. Now that's comparing apples with apples.





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