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Stuss15

Front camber settings for track s15

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Hey guys recently ran lakeside on some 221 semis with 4.1 degrees of neg camber in the front. On the front left I managed to roll the tyre over the edge causing more wear on the outside of the tyre. Also the front right dragged the inside cause a lot of wear. What I'm wanting to know is it worth running a tad more camber? I think it's getting a little to much and will start to effect braking. Or can I run slightly uneven settings to get more even wear like 4.2 left and 3.5 right. My concerns would be the car pulling one way under brakes. Thoughts as I'm getting a new alignment for street sprints this wend.

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How much toe do you run on the front? And what's your castor just our of curiosity?

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I think its too much mate

I killed it on the weekend with 2.5

Try going back to 3 degrees and see how it goes and start them at 30psi cold

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I run toe out 2mm total. Castor at 7.5 and camber was 4.1 last time at lakeside. I've just tryed pulling my toe to 1mm and camber is set at 3.6 in the front. Was finding the car tramlined to much on the road with 4degs of camber but I managed to wear the outside at lakeside. Running more will affect braking I believe.

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have you had the heatgun on your tyres after a run? Thats probably the best way to sort out whether you are running the right amount of camber on your wheels.. The infrared ones are 100 bucks or so..

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You can go off wear as well. It's very easy to see on new tyres as they have indicators on them. Going off wear it's telling me I need more but it seems like a lot. The rear at 1.3 is perfect.

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Perhaps add a bit more castor for mid-corner camber gain, then back off the static camber a touch.

Edited by 180MikE

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That's deinetly where it's rolling over. How much more castor would you suggest?

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Yer both qr and lakeside are heavy on the rights with left hand outside tire wear.

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I think you're front issues are caused by poor setup in the rear. You're relying on your fronts entirely to turn in instead of getting the car to dynamically turn in.

 

Try reducing camber to 3-3.5 and increase rear swaybar dramatically. Rear camber should be 2.25-2.5 if you have the dynamic balance right.

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Nfi can you elaborate more. If I ran that much camber in the rear I'd get uneven heat and wear. The car is very well balanced through mid to high speed corners but I'm interested to know more if u can go into detail.

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Hard to explain in writing but i'll have a crack.... A good motorsport suspension/wheel alignment place will understand from what i've written...

 

Think of your car it two halves. You want the front and the rear to have equal load on them so they begin to breakaway at the same g forces so the car feels balanced.

 

What it sounds like (note the sound as I'm only going off what you've written) is you have way to much of a reliance on the front of the car for grip hence why you are needing so much front camber. You're overpowering the front tyres so you are having to compensate with more front camber but ultimately the car is still not balanced from a dynamic (weight shift) perspective which is why its not nice round all corners.

 

Focus on shifting the weight shift to the rear through extra rear swaybar (when the car loads up (weight shifts) turning into a corner the rear won't roll as much loading up the back outside tyre and taking pressure off the outside front) and then you'll need the rear camber to support it.

 

Hope that makes more sense.

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Does make more sense, a lot of trial and error to gt that balance right. Did a pretty good job of explaining it to. Might try softening my front from med to soft as my rear is on soft already. This would Create the same affect? Yer...

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Hey James,

 

Since it's somewhat related, I assume you run an aftermarket swaybar on your setup, i know it might not apply as each car is setup differently in terms of coilovers/damping but would an aftermarket sway bar be beneficial? There seems to be alot of conflicting info on NRR, most of them seem to be recommending just upgrading to a slighter larger factory swaybar (gtr), most dont even run one but it looks like it only applies to ppl doing autocross

 

Would there be any traction problems running aftermarket swaybars? Not running huge power here but not using semi slicks either, just ad08r

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I run white line adjustable on med front and soft rear. I'm looking to go back to a factory rear to pick up more grip on undulating turns at lakeside ect. It all depends on setup but going much more than factory stiffness can limit you for grip. They feel great in a street car and great at the track but depending on setup can be hindering your times.

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I run no rear sway bar.

 

I actually prefer the feel of the car without it.

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I run a rear swaybar and run it quite stiff. Its a custom whiteline bar but I run probably equivalent to a 20mm bar on as hard as it can go.

 

IMHO if you are not running a rear swaybar then you're masking a setup issue. My car, Sutton bros, hawkins, under suzuki all run aftermarket rear swaybars.....

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Running no rear bar actually fixed my issues with my rear sway bar. I was getting snap oversteer with a rear bar on, dropped it off and picked up time straight away. The car doesn't roll excessively without it. In my opinion, people run rear bars is S-chassis because the fell that they have too since every other Tom, Dick and Harry does. And most that do run one, if not all, have probably never felt what it's like to drive hard without one. Saying that it masking a setup issue is basically saying my car doesn't work properly and that I should conform to what every other driver has and change my driving style. You make the car suit the driver, not the other way round. The car works as it is, I see no problem with the way it's setup, and a lot of others in the motorsport community would probably agree.

 

Running no rear bar is nothing new.

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Definitely shouldn't need more than 4 degrees on the front on semis. 3-3.5 front and about 2 rear should be close as James said.

 

I've tried no rear sway bar, stock and whiteline bar. It was terrible with no rear bar, way too much understeer. Stock bar was better, but the whiteline bar is better again.

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I agree with nfi how do your cars handle high speed under throttle? Are your cars setup super neutral? Or more oversteer or understeer? Appreciate all the input!

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Track.

 

1:06's at the moment down at Wakefield Park with 220rwkw and old 235/45/17 RE55's.

 

Link of the most recent upload, gone quicker since but haven't bothered to upload.

 

 

It's all down to personal preference I guess. Do some research, running no rear bar is nothing new. I know some Lotus come factory without any bars.

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I don't know what times are good ect. Other than qr/ lakeside. I no it's nothing you but to run no rear bar would be dramatic change and cause huge understeer with my current setup. I've done a lot of research and honestly not looking to go that way but I'm glad it works for u.

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How is it setup to feel? Neutral at speed, tailish or front push? Also what spring rAtes and alignment do u run out of curiosity

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It feels neutral I guess. Although when pushing hard it'll tend to oversteer a little before it understeers. But a very predictable oversteer.

 

Alignment is basically:

 

Front

Camber -4 (3.8ish)

Castor 9 degrees

Toe 2mm out total

 

Rear

Camber -2

Toe 1mm in total.

 

Coil overs are shitty Tein Super Drifts, front 10kg rear 8kg. And they're set about midway too, roughly 6-8 clicks off soft.

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Pretty sure nfi holds the record of fastest Silvia at Wakefield, so it must mean something...

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I know this. We're in the same car club.

 

I'm not arguing until I'm blue in the face. I prefer no rear bar, others hate it. If I ever get down to a 1:01 with 420rwkw, soft 295's and no rear bar then I'll bring it up again.

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Everyone's car is set up slightly different, same thing for their needs due to driving style.

 

What diff, very stiff springs/damper, alignment, style etc so shouldn't be a case of saying, "you're wrong"

 

personally with my setup, I'm seeking more rear stability during transition in - one of the steps planned is to disconnect rear whiteline bar, for an extreme check, if right direction, will be swapping to std bar w option of replacing std rubber bushes etc

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i think its safe to say that with no rear swaybar, it'll have understeer behaviour but dont take my word on it, but its only been published numerous of times by people who knows about 'how to go faster'

 

heres my experience to back that up

 

ive had stiffer after market SB in my car front and rear, front to rear felt balanced regarding to understeer to oversteer ratio in any point of a corner, then upgraded the front SB to adjustable ones, made if full stiff settings, car understeers more, i didnt go faster or slower in laptimes then with the older setup but it now understeers more noticeably. nice feeling in corner entry (stiffer so less weight shifting, more direct steering input), bad feeling on corner exits cause it'll keep pushing to the outside which makes me have a wider racing line on corner exit, sometimes good sometimes bad, depends on corner and the situation im in but thats what i notice from the change.

 

have not yet got myself a rear adjustable one to do more testing yet.

 

from that video SJB87 shows assuming in this video the car has no rear swaybar, the car has more apparent understeer at corner 9 of wakefield park. Funny enough my car now understeers at the same corner with more stiffer front swaybar settings (same scenario as having no rear swaybar). and i dont ever remember struggling at corner 9 with my older setup.

 

just food for thought

Edited by AE86557

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