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Grant McGrath

SURGE TANK SETUP HELP NEEDED!

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Hey enthusiasts.

I have question for you regarding surge tank setups. I'm wanting to run e85 system.

 

does the in tank pump that feeds the surge tank need to be e85 compatible? Or can I run the Walbro 255Lph pump I already have and just get a hight output e85 compatible external pump that actually runs the fuel to the engine?

 

And what size external pump should I be using when im looking at making 360rwkw with injector dynamics id2000?

 

Ide appreciate any information on this as all I have at the moment is the injectors and 255Lph Walbro which I'm happy to sell if needed.

 

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I had a stock Nissan intank pump making 300kw atw with an external 984 Bosch pump sucking from the surgetank, with only 1000cc injectors at 69% duty cycle. But, if I was u, id shove the biggest intank e85 proof pump such as a aem 320LPH pump or a walbro 460LPH pump, why do u need a surgetank?

Edited by DRE20

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from what i was reading if i want to take my car to the track (so the car would be under heavy cornering) and the fuel is low in the fuel tank the fuel will be pushed possibly to the opposite side of where the intank pump is sucking petrol from and will have a fuel cut which in turn is damaging your engine.

that is the whole reason i was thinking of doing a surge tank setup.

 

If i am incorrect i would much rather not spend the money on a surge tank setup but want to maintain maximum safety for my engine it understand where i am coming from.

 

Didn't the e85 start deteriorating your standard fuel pump though :/

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I haven't used e85 yet, I'm in the process of updating the fuel system...

 

If your going to be doing track work then yep go a surgetank, and always remember, bigger is better with fuel pumps. So the biggest u can afford/fit, up it.

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Biggest isn't always better. My understanding is your intake doesn't have to be crazy as it doesn't create the pressure and volume as required buy your external pump. I've tracked my car with 240wkw but as a precaution on a built motor I would run a tank setup. Is it required not really but it is peace of mind. If you keep your tank above half I couldn't see a problem but then again for what it costs I'd do it. More importantly what is your engine/turbo and gearbox setup these days?

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There are two points e85 and surge tank.

1) "I'm wanting to run e85 system" seems you are not currently running e85 and wish to switch

- get some decent advise about the whole delivery system, not just one aspect

2) wanting to go on the track is the "reason i was thinking of doing a surge tank setup" so you want to track the car but never have?

- Do a basic service, helmet, extinguisher and just get out to wakefied, eg trackschool day, you'll probably be driving round like a grandma at first with the fuel staying very flat :-)

- IMO you don't need a surge tank as a beginner, don't let your tank get low enough - buy and take full jerry cans, they will not be wasted - when you get better, more power and e85 you'll need a trailer to carry just your jerry cans.

- if you haven't crashed, got mortgaged to the hilt and are still going to the track, you'll be experienced, have better brakes, better suspension/track alignment, better tyres, more power etc, cage, no interior track only car, by then you'll have probably moved to surge tank setup because you have the skill to really lean on the car through corners instead of just planting it on the straight. And I've seen people lose it doing that.

- after 5 years, I've still to install one, just always a higher priority on the list sapping funds

 

FYI Surge tank cons, more expense, more complex,more risk of leaks, that one of two pumps could now die, go more complex and run parallel and run risk of one dying overloading the remaining one and you don't know it but there is a serious lack of flow to your motor, monitor it, hang on, expense again. Like the rest of taking a car to the track - very expensive hobby, you will not run out of things to burn money on. Try and avoid it at the beginning because they are going to come thick and fast.

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So this is how my build has been going. Not all parts are in yet but are in the shed. I've got a sr20 blacktop with

Cp pistons 50 thou oversized

Eagle rods h beam

Mls metal head gasket

Acl race bearings

Arp head studs

Arp main studs

Bc stage 3 cam 12.5 mm lift 272 duration

Adjustable cam gears

New rocker arms

Gktech rocker arm stopper

Bc stainless valves

Bc springs

Bc retainers

New valve guides

Vrs kit

Port and polish for intake and exhaust

Balance entire engine

extended sump

Line bore for main studs

Injector dynamics id2000

time fuel pressure regulator

Greddy intake with na 60 mm throttle body

Oil filter relocation with oil cooler

Eboost2

Orc dual plate clutch redone to hold 380rwkw

s14 5 speed

Coil overs

Full front and back gktech v3 adjustable steering arms

R33 front brake upgrade

F 18x8.5 R 18x9.5 work emotions which I'm putting hankook rs3's 265x40x18 on the rear

Hks t3 manni with hks 53mm waste gate

6 point roll cage

 

Parts I'm considering

Obviously this surge tank setup.

Nistune with the new update to run flex fuel e85/98

Garret 3076 .86 rear or precision 5858

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I think that's it lol but im hoping to have it all on the road in about 2-3 months as I'm hard up atm and selling my business lol

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And to answer the other questions sorry :P

The car was stock apart from Coil overs front mount exhaust and Eboost2. The car has now been of the road for the past few months and is getting slowly but surely finished!

I've never been to the track I just wanted to take it somewhere I could learn how she feels lol! Oh and the front and rear sway bars have beenbeen upgraded to whiteline ones

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Deleted vtc? Are those cams in yet? What sort of power you wanting to make?

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Deleted vtc? Are those cams in yet? What sort of power you wanting to make?

 

It has been a long run since your first started giving me advice man(Stuss15) :D cheers for everything btw!

Cams are dialed in so yeah no vct. Engines all built soo all engine parts are what is staying in :) on e85 I want to see 330rwkw which from what other people have been pulling I think is very achievable?

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Why would you delete VCT? that piece of engineering is what gives you low down response regardless of how much your cams are dialed in.

Yet you see GT-R boys spend $5~10k on fitting the HKS V-CAM kit OR modifying their heads to run RB25DET NEO VCT.

 

I guess if it's outright power you're after the less moving parts the better.

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Both Kdog and tom both made very good power on e85 with smaller cams and a gtx3071. What gearbox are you running? It's gunna ramp quite aggressively with that turbo and cam combo. It won't be great for circuit but it'll definetly be fun to drive and you ll make the power you want too.

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Those boys have inspired me to run a similar setup, eith twinscroll gtx 3071 or BW turbo, only thing is I can't find much info on the BW turbos on srs.

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Then be a trend setter and just do it :)

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Why would you delete VCT? that piece of engineering is what gives you low down response regardless of how much your cams are dialed in.

Yet you see GT-R boys spend $5~10k on fitting the HKS V-CAM kit OR modifying their heads to run RB25DET NEO VCT.

 

I guess if it's outright power you're after the less moving parts the better.

 

i was told by the tuner and read in various places that vct would not stand up and would become a problem.

i was also told about how much bottom end i would loose but thought i had no other option. im guessing i have again made a novice mistake!

guess ill learn from experience soon enough :/

 

Both Kdog and tom both made very good power on e85 with smaller cams and a gtx3071. What gearbox are you running? It's gunna ramp quite aggressively with that turbo and cam combo. It won't be great for circuit but it'll definitely be fun to drive and you ll make the power you want too.

that was one way i was going to go but made a decision to look for some extra power. i understand the response wont be there but im quiet sure ive seen simular setups hitting boost at around 4200-4400 RPM which i thought with the engine being capable of reving 8K rpm+ it wouldnt be too laggy. i just have a s15 5 speed that the person i got it off had receipt for some work done to tighten it up...

 

ide love to put the two setups beside eachother

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In all honesty depending on boost level you'll struggle to see 26 psi before 4700rpm. You can't retain vtc with high lift and hard springs as you know but unless your reving over 7500 you won't benefit much from a big cam. The thing will be heaps of fun to drive regardless. I have fun an mine makes full boost at 4800 on 18psi lol.

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I was only planing on running 24-26 psi I thought anymore would be stretching it even with e85 or is the more room left with the build in your opinion? Yeah i don't really know what to expect tbh. When pulling out the standard engine we found so many leeks eg only 2 bolts on the dump and hole in the intercooler piping lol. And that's the only way I've driven it before it has all started.

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Those boys have inspired me to run a similar setup, eith twinscroll gtx 3071 or BW turbo, only thing is I can't find much info on the BW turbos on srs.

 

Nicknack and I both have efr7163 twin scrolls. His should be getting close to getting tuned :)

Mine is ages away. There's a thread on NRR about them.

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