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Kobe sil15

s15 break upgrade option

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hey guys, sorry if this is a repeat of another thread.

 

since I have recently finished upgrading basic engine mods (for now) I think it's time to get a bit more stopping power. atm I'm running stock breaks on front then standard break set up on rear with D1 rear pads. the breaks where fine with the stock power it since it's now pushing 294hp at wheels the breaks are definitely a down fall, with plans on doing track days soon I'd be a lot happier with more stopping power haha.

 

so the options I've been reading are:

r33 brembos (require r33 hand break adapter??)

or a basic upgrade of slotted rotors, new callipers and lines?

 

what have other people done and what's actually worth it rather than blowing endless amounts of money

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Its been covered, but the search function is pretty suboptimal....so.....

 

 

 

I have done R33GTR brembos on a s15 front and rear and R33 and S15 brakes on a 180sx and a s13.

 

R33GTR brembos are fairly straightforward, front is a bolt on affair, Rear as well. Yes you need R33GTR or R33GTST handbrake drums, backing plates and cables. (I used the latter) S13-15 rear stub axle things have a hole which allows the use of Skyline handbrake drums.

 

I didnt use any handbrake adaptor, but I dropped the subframe and routed the cables and secured them such that it attached to the front section of the s15 handbrake cable in a position where the handbrake would work. I also used a coupling nut instead of the std nut on the handbrake to get the tension just so. Without doing this you'll find the handbrake is too tight or too loose to work the handbrake drum. Experimenting was required and I may have crossed the handbrake cables or moved some mounting tabs or both. You have to triple check you dont foul any suspension or driveshafts.

 

I have seen fabricated adaptor plates for the handbrake cable to suit s15s with GTR brakes although AFAIK these were all one offs.

 

I also used a ABS BM57 Master cylinder and ADR approved braided brake lines. Brake Bias is pretty spot on. Pedal is a little firmer though (could also be the braided lines)

 

Setup is good, for a bolt on affair.

 

 

However, I feel since r33GTST front and rear are a lot better than s15, are a lot cheaper than r33GTR brakes and not that much worse than r33GTR brakes (if you get good pads/rotots) they are a cost effective upgrade.

 

Adaptor brackets, Evo brembo fronts and R33 GTST rears are probably the best bang for your buck upgrade. Ive no experience with guessing which BMC works well with this though.

 

 

 

If I was serious I would probably go for a 6pot front like project Mu, Greddy, AP, endless etc on the front and r33gtst/gtr rears.

 

Fact of the matter is R33GTR brakes are good, but they have all been heat cycled, stressed, are 15-20 years old, and even if rebuilt just aren't as good as what can be had new. R33GTR are a big upgrade, but at $1500-$2000 for a full set of r33GTR brembos....(last time I looked) thats not exactly cheap....

 

 

Might be worth looking at this, although not directly applicable does have some relevant information.

http://forum.silviansw.com/viewtopic.php?t=32767

 

Caliper Piston sizes

http://nissans15.com/brakes.htm

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From experience, for a trouble free upgrade I would advise you don't mix and match (unless you do the calcs to get the bias right) I originally put evo brembos with 330mm rotors on the front and gtst brakes on the rear, and even with an adjustable proportioning valve I couldn't get anywhere near enough rear brake. After one track day I upgraded to r34 vspec brembos in the rear and now its great, but gtst brakes would probably suffice and have been a hell of a lot cheaper.

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*Brake not break

 

When I decided to do my brake upgrade on my 180sx I went with R33 GTST due to having larger front discs to other skylines and being affordable. Brembos will work better if their in your price range. As far as I'm aware you require a adaptor to fit the callipers to the knuckles and a adaptor for the handbrake.

 

I used this as a reference for the handbrake adaptor and used 3mm steel

s13eagle.jpg

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Yeah as above r33 gtst calipers fit on s15 front you just need the rotors and it's a bolt on affair.

The rears you need the drum setup and handbrake cables etc and master cylinder.

 

If budget allows look into r33 brembos front or even evo brembos with the adapters but your probably looking at $1500 +

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Brembos will work better if their in your price range. As far as I'm aware you require a adaptor to fit the callipers to the knuckles and a adaptor for the handbrake.

 

r33GTR brembos and r32GTR brembos are direct bolt on. Detailed reply in his other thread.

 

http://nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2445717&st=0

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On s15 you don't need an adapter plate as such to fit r33 handbrake, but my cables were a little loose so I had to add some spacers as shown in the pic, which I welded up so they don't come loose.

 

http://i.imgur.com/pNQbVRL.jpg

 

 

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Thanks craZeeE, pretty much perfect reply I was looking for :) ill have to do more research in other set ups and see whats the best way to go

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Unless you're already doing track days then I would stick with the stock s15 calipers. Put in some good pads and fluid, skim the discs and off you go.

That will be fine for track days for a beginner. When you start finding the limit of your setup then look at upgrading. R33 gtst or evo brembos.

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Consider the additional weight of a big brake upgrade too. You really need a system large enough to cope with the heat generated, but no bigger.

 

I personally used the stock brakes for a number of days until I got some AD08r tyres at which point I reached their limit. I have now switched to GTST callipers and grooved/slotted rotors all round and have had no issues at all. Importantly though, there was no weight penalty for the exchange (S15 iron callipers vs R33 alloy callipers).

 

Of course you can go bigger and lighter too - Wilwood make some insanely light setups and Im sure that some 2 piece rotors would negate a lot of the weight of a larger calliper.

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Stock S15 Calipers and decent pads and rotors will suffice for track days with about 200kw and high-end street tyres. I had no fade issues with S15 calipers and DBA slotted rotors with Project Mu HC800 pads.

 

I am upgrading to R33 GTST front and rear because I plan to get better tyres for track days and have a feeling that the tyres will lead to increased fade as I will be braking later and harder.

 

EDIT: you can also buy pre-fabricated Adapter plates for the handbrake cables from Taarks.com.

 

requirements for R33 GTST upgrade:

Front calipers

Front rotors

Rear calipers

Rear rotors

Rear backing plates w/drum handbrake assembly

Rear handbrake cables

Adapter plate/DYI plate

BMC to suit

 

if you dont have them its worth buying braided lines, caliper rebuild kit and new shims/springs/clips unless you know the gear is good. as stated above these parts are over a decade old and probably could use some TLC.

 

 

Worth mentioning that caliper adapters to use larger rotors are probably not the best idea for a car thats going to see track time as its another point of failure.

 

 

all the nissan 4 piston non-brembo front calipers use the same rebuild kit and the same brake pads.

Edited by Varvs

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Spending good money on pads is what's required. Not a bigger rotor. What pass are you running now. This is the biggest thing overlooked every time.

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How come no does the r34 gt-t front calipers? Same size caliper but longer tabs for 310mm discs. Think theyre alloy as well.

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bolt holes are different diameter.

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R34GTT brakes are hard to come by but are the pick of the non-brembo bunch.

 

GTST fronts gives you 16mm of practically nothing so it's not even worth looking at unless you're a 180sx/s13 guy; you save weight but you barely gain anything as pistons are the same sizes, rotors are same thickness and the brake pads are also the same.

 

GTR32 brakes you gain a little in diameter and thickness.

 

By 2015 decent sports car in this day and age have a lower power-to-weight ratio than a basic-modded Silvia yet they all have larger brakes than an R34 GTR. Off the top of my head cars like the 370z, s3, s4, a45, cla45, 235, 335, STi, Evo, etc

Edited by _Wing_

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16mm more rotor means you're now 8mm further out from the centre and have better leverage over the 280mm rotors. not to mention extra surface area for heat dissipation

 

its not much but its a difference.

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I did 34 gtst on my 15. Was a prick to drill out but eventually got there. I'm sorry guys but the best thing to do is bolt on an alloy caliper as there lighter, an disapate heat better. If the stock s15 brakes were alloy I would have kept them and put decent pads on. Going a slightly bigger rotor achieves nothing in everyday circumstances. The limiting factor right now will be brake pads. Go and spend $350 on some pfc 01 compound front pads. It's cheaper than an upgrade, you will notice it instantly, improve braking performance and give better pedal feel. You will notice nothing but just increasing rotor size. And remember all pads are interchangeable between s14/15 r33/34

Edited by Stuss15

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I also did the r34gtt. Wasn't too hard to drill out the knuckles. U need a freshly sharpened 14mm bit and drill on a slow speed. I also used some sandpaper on the end of the bit and in the hole to stop it binding. They can be found for reasonable prices. I bought two sets complete with calipers , discs, lines, pads and bolts for 200 each. 1 for my sil and 1 for my stag. Only other issue is stock 16" rims won't clear the calipers without a 5mm spacer. If I had to do it again , I would just do r33 brakes. Simpler, cheaper and more of them available.

 

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does anyone know of another option of buying new grooved rotors, calipers and pads rather than sourcing r33 parts that as mentioned, are a decade old now. roughly how much would it cost and what brandsm/ where to buy do them?

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There are a huge selection of discs on ebay. RDA tends to be a good product.

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=12&LH_ItemCondition=3&_nkw=R33%20discs&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=2&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

 

With calipers just buy second hand and replace the seals. There are kits on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=R33+caliper&LH_PrefLoc=2&_sop=12&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.XR33+caliper+kit.TRS0&_nkw=R33+caliper+kit&_sacat=0

 

With pads I don't have a huge amount of experience with as I just buy the generic off the shelf products. I haven't had any issues but I have only ever used them for normal use. I have considered possibly trying Project Mu pads next time.

http://www.project-mu.com.au/en/

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depends how much you want to spend. As a lot of guys have already said, braided lines, some slotted DBA s15 rotors and some quality pads will make a difference.

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i was under the impression that the size of the s15 rotors would be the biggest limiting factor simply because they are just so small. but I think im going to go DBA slotted rotors, project Mu HC800 pads, GK tech braided lines and some good fluid. around a $500 upgrade and should be perfect for now until I find its limits :)

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I have that exact setup on my 180 and its very good. They will lock up pretty easily on the street with cold tyres.

 

very dusty/noisy but if you are hitting the track they are worth it.

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Hc 800 are shit, I'm sorry no one wants to hear that but locking wheels doesn't make them good. The reason they lock is because they don't modulate. I was locking img up 255 z221 at the track once the heat ramped on the rotor with hc 800. It's hard to explain to people but they lock to early without pulling up well. Ferrodo 2500 is a nice feeling and modulating pad. I've explained to you Kobe. If you buy the pfc compound 01 or 11 you will be blowin away. 280 mm rotors are fine for street and light track. The leaver action increase is not noticed but increasing by 8mn.

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Hot tyres on the track and the ABS never kicked in for me.

 

I found them fine to modulate.

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It's the way they ramp. When you start squeezing on the limit they lock way to early. Locking how they do on the rd cool sucks too. There are pads twice as good for an extra $70

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Maybe you guys some setup differences... braided lines, BMC stopper? Both on BM50?

Edited by Skepticism

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Regardless of bmc. All my stuff was factory s15. I'm talking from my experience. They are the worst pads between the 3 I tryed that are similar price. My s15 holds the street car Silvia record or street and semis. I'm not just rattling off crappy info to fill the forum. Im telling you from experience as I learnt the expensive way. Good luck with the improvement

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I would probably steer clear of RDA rotors, I haven't used them myself but a mate of mine has set on his S14 and they would warp an shudder when they got hot. DBA ftw.

As for pads, I run Winmax W5's and I love them for the track. Having said that, they are very bighty, .so I opted for a little 7" booster. These probably aren't a pad you would run on the street though.

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