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CA18inDEBT

What would you do in this situation?

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Hi guys, 180 was leaking water and oil, so I took it to a mechanic. He tells me the turbo is leaking oil and needs to be replaced, and the water is coming from a cracked hose. Also welsh plugs need to be replaced, radiator flushed, new water pump, and thermostat. I agreed for him to proceed at this stage. The next time he called, he had removed the turbo, ordered a new one and unpacked it but not yet installed it. He had done everything else up to replacing the themrostat. He then saw an oily residue on it, and called to say there was probably damage to the head and or gasket. He quoted a new price which included machining the head. Again I agreed to proceed. Next time he called he had removed the head and found that one of the cylinders is damaged also. He gave me the option of replacing the engine or sending the head and block out to be machined. If I go ahead with replacing the engine, he says I still have to pay for the new turbo (which is not yet fitted) and all other parts and labour on the old engine. I can see his point of view, that he should be paid for the work that he's put in so far, but from my point of view I don't want to pay for an engine and turbo that is of no use to me.

 

He also gave me a price to rebuild the old engine, so at least the work done so far wouldn't be wasted, but it works out about twice as expensive as replacing it.

 

So my questions are, do I have any grounds to refuse payment for the work done so far? and how much does it really cost to rebuild an engine, is around $4000-$6000 about right? I haven't seen the damage to the head or block so can't really give much more info on that side of things. All I know is, apart from the water leak the car seemed to run perfectly fine to me before I put it in to get fixed.

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4-6k :ph34r: was it leaking diamonds aswell

you can get a ca (asuming by your forum name) anywhere from a slab of beer to $1000

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<br />4-6k  <img src='http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' /> was it leaking diamonds aswell<br />you can get a ca (asuming by your forum name) anywhere from a slab of beer to $1000<br />
<br /><br /><br />

Yep its CA18DET, but the $4000-$6000 is for the work to the head and block, and includes the labour of taking it out and replacing it. Still not sure if it seems a little exy.

 

The price to fit a replacement CA was around $2500 including labour.

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removing a turbo is always roughly $300, removing a motor is around $500 so unless he gold plated the bores or whatever he said the bloke is trying to rip you off

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4-6k  :ph34r:' /> was it leaking diamonds aswell

you can get a ca (asuming by your forum name) anywhere from a slab of beer to $1000

 

 

 

Yep its CA18DET, but the $4000-$6000 is for the work to the head and block, and includes the labour of taking it out and replacing it. Still not sure if it seems a little exy.

The price to fit a replacement CA was around $2500 including labour.

I would go with that 4/6k for the rebuild is expensive 2500 for the replacement even with the labour on the previous engine would be much more worth it either that or get an sr :P lol

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wow man from what you have said it sounds like your being taken for a ride.

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<br />Firstly go down to the shop and take a look for yourself. That way you know everything is true ( I just don't trust people, escpecially people that perform work that you can not see has/hasn't been done)<br /><br />You would expect to see a brand new turbo laying around and your engine with the head removed. Also get him to point out the damage to the cylinder to you. If none of this is done or things just don't add up, pay him for his work and take the car now.<br /><br />Now if its all done as he has said, and your happy for him to keep working on it. You need to make a decision based on what you want from the car.<br /><br />While simply replacing the engine may be the cheapest option you have to remember that it is a used engine and any used engine will have at-least 100 000 kms on it. If your planning to keep this car for a while things will fail on this new engine that will cost you money. It could likely need a rebuild 6months down the track itself.<br /><br />Having your existing engine reconditioned, while more expensive, will last you for the entire time you own the car (even if that's the next 10 years).<br /><br />If you go for the transplant, then try locate your own engine off here first, it will always be cheaper as your not paying a wreckers markup. If you can't find one then call some wreckers and shop around yourself, the mechanic will probably just call the one Japanese wrecker he has dealt with before regardless of how expensive he is.<br /><br />If you go for the rebuild then you don't get much say in who does what, unless you actually physically take the engine yourself to get rebuilt then drop it off to the mechanic once done. Which you could do, though the mechanic may not like having things like that out of his control, after all he will have you car now taking up his space with no control over when the engine is coming back.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

 

First off, thanks for a great reply! I will take your advice and go down there and at least take a look. I have been considering what you said towards the end there about taking just the engine out to a machine shop then giving it back to him to fit. One place I called said that a surface grind of the head was like $80 and $40 for a cylinder bore or something like that. As I said before, I don't know the damage to the block, but $120 seems a long way from $6000 (though obviously the machine shop wasn't quoting labour of taking the engine apart and putting it back together).

 

If I was to locate and engine off here first as you say, how would I know whether it is any good? You say you don't trust people doing work you can't see, and I feel a bit the same way about buying a second hand engine, especially from some random on a forum :) I have seen cheaper than his quote on ebay, but feel that at least if he sources the engine, he is in some way responsible for it's quality. That could just be a false hope though?

 

Another option I've been considering is that maybe I should get the replacement done now just to get my car back and not have to stuff him around too much by taking the engine away and bringing it back again. Then when I pick up my car maybe I can take the old engine to a machne shop and get some quotes on a rebuild, and then maybe sell it? Or could I sell it damaged? Do people buy that sort of thing?

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this it the reason why i dont trust mechanics... if possible do as much work as you can yourself in the future

 

also what everyone else said, ditch ca and put in something decent like 1j, sr or rb... ca's should be free, not $2500 even if it includes labour

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this it the reason why i dont trust mechanics... if possible do as much work as you can yourself in the future

 

also what everyone else said, ditch ca and put in something decent like 1j, sr or rb... ca's should be free, not $2500 even if it includes labour

 

I would probably attempt it myself if I had the time and tools (not to mention knowledge), but unfortunately I don't.

 

Also to everyone suggesting conversions, I have no reason to want anything other than stock. I don't intend to race/drift. A reliable every day driver is enough for me. Personally I think once you upgrade one part, you will need to do more and more as each component is pushed further than intended by the manufacturer. I'm complaining about how much I need to spend just to do a straight replacement engine, imagine what I'd be like after I've done new engine, wiring, gearbox, diff, fuel pump etc. If I wanted one of those engines I'd trade for a newer 180/Skyline/Supra etc. Thanks for the suggestions though :)

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Machining work itself is quite cheap, but it takes time to strip everything down to get it ready for machining, and time costs money. First the head an block have to be stripped down completely bare, that means cams, valves, valve springs, valve guides etc all come out, crankshaft, rods, pistons, bearing carriers too, then the head and block can be cleaned (usually acid dipped), then they can finally be machined. Then of course it all has to be put back in, and clearances checked etc. Also a full set of brand new gaskets, piston rings, main bearings, big end bearings, head bolts etc need to be used during re-assembly.

 

Buying any second hand engine is always a bit of a lottery, if you can get a compression test done on it that can give you a bit of an indication as to its internal condition, but you can't do much more than that unless its still in a car that you can drive first. The mechanic won't provide any warranty on any engine he has sourced, nor will he be obligated to fix it if it breaks. The wrecker he buys it from will provide some sort of warranty, but usually they only offer a start up warranty, Ie: once you have got it started and it runs there is no more warranty.

 

If you were do that I would suggest you source a CA18DE (along with DE DE front pipe, DE intake pipe),no sense buying another DET for no real reason. They can be found very very cheap usually as they have been removed due to turbo upgrades. I would find one, have the mechanic put it in, so you have a car to get around in, and then decide what you want to do. You could sell the car as is with the DE and damaged DET to a P plater, or you can strip the DET apart yourself and send it off to be machined, then reassemble yourself, and get it re-installed later on some time.

 

Thanks for filling in the gaps. I figured there must have been more to his quote than simply pulling the engine apart and sending it to a machine shop. Shame about the lack of warranty, but I suppose even when you buy any second hand car you never really know the condition of the engine's internals. I never considered the idea of non-turbo and then sell/trade... More food for thought, thanks.

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why would u trust this guy from just a phone call,the first time he rang u u said yep and he heard cash

the second time he rang u said yep and he paid for his wifes new shoes

the third time he thought f**k this im gettin my son a new bike for christmas,so he rang u again

 

do not trust any mechanic,without going down and taking a look for urself

i never let anything go ahead if a mechanic calls me up,but then again my car hasnt been in a workshop for over 4 years i try to do everything myself

i dont think u have any leg to stand on simply because u said it was ok over the phone

 

moral of the story,try to be at the workshop as much as possible or close by wen work is being done

if he rings u and says he found more shit wrong and says i need to do this and that.........tell him to wait till u can get urself or someone mechanicly minded down the workshop first for inspection and peace of mind

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4-6k for a CA, the dude is taking u for a ride. if u wanted a reliable daily why did u go with a 20yr old turbo import should have stuck with a rolla n wouldnt have had any problems.

 

also go have a look at ur old turbo, see if there is any shaft play etc actually have a look if there are things wrong, go start your car up have a look if there is any white froth in the radiator, unless ur mechanic is a close mate dont trust a word they say. from what ur mechanic says there is just way too much stuff that went wrong, cars usually dont completely shit themselves unless your thrashing the daylights out of them. (that or the car was a lemon in the first place)

 

if you blew the head ud have noticed rattling sound, (sounds like exhaust dragging along the ground) a shitload of steam coming out and temp guage would have hit the top, not to mention losing all power.

 

the way to do it with least amount of headaches is just get urself an sr.

that or save up a little extra cash bring a 180/silvia from japan that is already properly modded n pull the bits out, if you dont need to rego or compliance or any of that stuff then they are cheap as to bring over.

 

another cheap option is an rb20.

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i agree with ashman, go down, get him to explain it, then report what he says back here, we will know whether he's talking shit. either that or bring a long a mate that knows there shit. sounds like he's taking u for a ride.

 

also rememeber to look at resale, a rebuilt engine is a great selling point and will earn u more $$ when it comes time to sell over a used engine. so u may spend more $$ up front, but ull get a bit of that back on resale.

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im not saying it's a financial investment, but its worth taking it into account.

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I have found on here a couple of non turbo CA18's for sale. If I could find one with a good block could I use that in my CA18DET? If so, how does the amount of labour compare to that of a rebuild? Thanks for all the replies so far.

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the only advantage buying from wreckers is that they give you some sort of warranty although i dont really know how thorough it would be..

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i just got bought a ca18 on got it rebuilt and was 2200 all up and that included machining

 

and a ca18de bottom end and ca18det are different but heads are the same only different cams

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^^are thicker head gaskets an option to get that compression down with CA's?

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warranty from wreckers is a joke, they give u like a 30 day warranty on parts not labour and to add to that u cant open the part to have a look if its in good nik as that voids the warranty. so in the end u put whatever u bought into the car pray like crazy that it doesnt blow up n take other stuff with it because if it does u get a replacement part whose condition u know nearly nothing about and still have to pay for labor (which is usually more expensive than the part itself)

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Hey, I know how you feel...

 

My second CA18DET engine just went on me... And it's the second time a tiny peice of metal somehow got into the engine and destroyed it... I paid 2800 for the last engine; which was built with a 1.25mm headgasket. The engine lasted no more than 30,000 kms :angry:

It did it no more than 5 mins out of a dyno shop. Apparently fine on the dyno for 2 hours before that though :angry::S

 

I'm in the same boat as you... Do I build another one?

 

Anyone have a good CA18DET for sale? Where are all the CA engines from all these SR20 conversions :lol:

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Your mechanic sounds like idiot, he either has no idea what he's doing or he's just ripping you off for some early christmas money. He's just pulling random bits off your engine and quoting to replace with new parts.

 

At the very least you should get him to show you what's damaged and whats needed to be done before dropping 6k. If things seem dodgy just get your car towed out of there.

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i should have read this sooner, i would have suggested to send it to my machine shop depending where in nsw ur from

 

though a $4-6000 is kinda understandable if they machine any and everything and assemble it ready to drop in,

though we do only whats needed and would cost alot less, especially in "kit" form ready to assemble

 

if the mechanic still wants you to pay for the parts he bought then screw him, tell him if its not broke dont fix it, and most parts places will atleast give a 30 day refund/credit to tradesmen

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Another option is to get motoring organization (RAA, NRMA, MTA) to discuss the matter with the mechanic.

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Bro i havnt read any of this topic but the Topic starter,

but when i read the first 2 lines

water/oil... straight away that tells me head gasket.

 

and the other shit like Thermos stat an radiator he was just milking u off your money.

 

I agree with sticky, u have been taken on a milk ride. (btw your the cow) :)

Edited by 8URVTEC

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4-6k. you could buy a whole new sil for that, this mechanics riding you for all your worth till you stop paying.

great advice to go down and take a look, i'd probably also call around a few others and get compeditive quotes, give you something to stand on if you want to argue the cost.

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also! with some of your other parts i'd be very careful, if it doesnt seem like its wrecked your probably right and its not

i had a mechanic write me up a list of things that must be fixed to pass a RWC,

checked out half myself and found nothing wrong. i think the guy sat down in his office took out a pen and wrote down all the things he could think of that might go wrong in an older japanese car and tried to make me pay to have them done.

mechanics are pricey, mainly because they know deep down anyone with the internet and some time can do anything they can, therefore must make as much money as possible off as few people as will come to them.

be cautious and do as much work yourself as you can, heaps of helpful how to guides are on this forum, just search :)

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WOW Fried Ricer

 

You bring back a thread that was from October last yr

 

<_>

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i wonder how they keep reviving these topics from years or months ago.must be the search engine

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