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Synthetic Life : Religious debate

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here's a thought on this flood. geological records have confirmed that some of the eath did flood around the rough time specified in the bible, i use the word some sparingly as it was far from the whole world, far from even 20% of the world. just one place.

now to someone who doesn't know of different continents across the water it would appear is if their whole world flooded, but certainly far from the truth.

 

i think my ancient history teacher summed it up best with her thoughts, ignore the religous stuff in it and it's like a stylised account of history.

 

i'd like to see some evidence. such flood nutters believe the world is only 6000 years old, so yeh, i have doubts any possible evidence with lineup with the bible.

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:lol: lol they're they go doin it again...

 

Science 1 .. God RELIGION 0.

 

edited for bootleg

fixed!

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i have some interesting reading for people interested in the "inaccuracy" of the Bible

 

now lets consider for a second that science is relativly "new" compared to the life of the universe.... so i've found some interesting notes that are mentoned in the Bible long before they where "confirmed" by science

 

to further add to the point, i'll add the dates that the Books in the Bible where written :thumbsup:

 

The Bible says that each star is unique: [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star different from [another] star in glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41, (1 Corinthians approximately A. D. 55.)

 

in Genesis 15:5 written roughly 1450-1410 BC, Jeremiah 33:22 roughly 627-585 BC & Hebrews 11:12 roughly 64-68 AD all say you can't count the stars in the sky... even with today's technology we have not answered "how many stars are there in the sky?"

 

Light travels in a path, darkness does not... Job 38:19 950 BC or earlier :thumbsup:

 

17 verses in the Bible state that God expanded the size of the Universe

 

scientists are still not sure of whether the universe is finite or infinite. The Bible appears to be very clear on the idea that it's finite. the link to 17 verses in the Bible state that God expanded the size of the Universe covers this

 

Joseph Silk: We don't know. The expanding Universe theory says that the Universe could expand forever [that corresponds to a 'flat' Universe]. And that is probably the model of the Universe that we feel closest to now. But it could also be finite, because it could be that the Universe has a very large volume now, but finite, and that that volume will increase, so only in the infinite future will it actually be infinite.

 

Earth floats freely in space: Job 26-7 950 BC

 

According to the Old Testament (Genesis 17:12), circumcision of newborn males was to be performed on the eighth day after birth....

Oddly enough, it is only on the 5th through the 7th days of the newborn male's life that vitamin K begins to be produced (the vitamin is normally produced by bacterial action in the intestinal tract). and it is only on day eight that the percentage of prothrombin climbs above 100% of normal! The only day in the entire life of the newborn that the blood clotting element prothrombin is that high is day eight. The best day for surgical procedure like circumcision is therefore day eight

 

Laughter can promote physical healing & Depression can be harmful to your physical health: Proverbs 17-22: 950 - 700 BC

 

Job 28-25 950 BC: Air has weight

 

Job 38:29-30: "From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?"

 

The phrase "surface of the deep is frozen" is a reference to ocean ice caps found only in the farthest reaches of the north. How could someone like Job or his contemporaries, living in the area of Saudi Arabia in ancient times, have known about polar ice caps? Not even the harshest winter could have produced a frozen ocean surface in that region of the world.

 

The course of trade winds: "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course." (Ecclesiastes 1:6)

 

(Psalm 8:8) "...and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas." : Ocean currents revealed?

 

"Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep?" (Job 38:16) The existence of hydrothermal springs?

 

"He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind. Who can understand how he spreads out the clouds, how he thunders from his pavilion?"

(Job 36:27-29) The hydrological cycle?

 

Hebrews 11:3 64-68 AD, 3By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

 

The first sub-atomic particle to be discovered by modern science was the electron. It was first discovered by J.J. Thomson in 1897!!!!! :o

 

 

it's quite interesting when you think about it, i mean the Bible saying these things LONG before scientist either thought to look or discovered them!

 

i'd love to hear your thoughts!

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Id just like to question that. First of all id like to ask, how is it that scientists first need some form of evidence that something happened, or was there, etc. Do they not search? say they claim that there was a dinosaur who was 30 meters high and 12" teeth, that would swallow a hippo in one bite, etc etc. Now if they told people that, who would believe them? no one, they need some evidence. Why is the bible not enough evidence? it clearly isint something written recently, its dated back thousands of years, and it is the most sold book ever and will be for years to come, so why cant this be enough evidence?

 

You're not seriously this stupid are you?

 

So if it's written in a book (that's discovered in 2000 years time) that there was a dinosaur who was 30 metres high and 12" teeth, that would swallow a hippo in one bite, etc etc it would be true would it, just because it was in a book.

 

do you know of any other book that has been written thousands of years ago? that humans have been using since it was written, and still is and still will be read???

and for people that believe the big bang theory, and i dont doubt it, i dont say it never happened, but why couldnt the big bang happen when god made the heavens and the earth? why couldnt god use the big bang to create the universe?

Use of the big bang theory incorporates radiation into its model.

You preach on like a devote christian, and believe that the earth has only been around for 6000 years, when the big bang theory states it's been around for alot longer.

WHICH ONE DO YOU f**king BELIEVE?

If you believe in the big bang, then you don't believe in a creator, because I recall god made everything in 7 days did he not? The big bang was instantaneous f**khead.

 

Jesus Christ.

I think you may be up for a Darwin award one day.

 

Theres what your not getting, the big bang is not proved to be true, ITS A THEORY, no solid evidence.

Now ask me which one i believe, after the THEORY has been proved to be true

You cant say that, every christian/believer has their own opinion, i for one dont disagree with the big bang, i believe, it could have happened, and probably did, why? because i think that the big bang was a part of when god first created the heavens and the earth, it could have happened, who knows, no one has proven it to be true yet.

Its just a theory. That means all the facts support its existence, but do not prove it without a doubt. There is no fact that anyone can disprove it either.

How can every christian/believer have their own opinion? That's bullshit. If they had their own opinion, why do all of you FOLLOW THE WRITINGS IN A BOOK?

If you believe the writings of the bible to be correct, then you CANNOT include the big bang into your belief. The bible doesn;t't teach it, and your religions' teachings label it as FALSE.

 

If you believe in the big bang, then you aren't following your religion, yet you still preach about it.

 

NO FACTS support the belief of gods existance. NOTHING MEASUREABLE supports the belief of gods existence.

FACTS support the theory of the big bang. MEASURABLE OBSERVATIONS/READINGS/CALCULATIONS etc all support the theory of the big bang.

 

Science 1 .. God 0.

 

edited for bootleg

 

Thats actually not true, i know many many strong believers that dont doubt the big bang, now when i say, i believe in it, and i dont doubt it, i dont mean, i believe in it happened by its self, i believe it didnt just fkn appear out of no where, and all of a sudden there is life, im saying, the big bang COULD have happened from WHEN THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH was created, can you see what my point is?

yes calculations, observations, readings, etc are there, and thats good, stop saying that im saying it never happened, cause i do believe it did happen, but not by its own.

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Nothing wrong with a theological big bang, although because we can reasonably accurately measure the speed and acceleration of the universe's expansion we do know that the big bang happened about 13-14 billion years ago - not 6,000.

 

i have some interesting reading for people interested in the "inaccuracy" of the Bible

 

now lets consider for a second that science is relativly "new" compared to the life of the universe.... so i've found some interesting notes that are mentoned in the Bible long before they where "confirmed" by science

 

to further add to the point, i'll add the dates that the Books in the Bible where written :thumbsup:

 

The Bible says that each star is unique: [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star different from [another] star in glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41, (1 Corinthians approximately A. D. 55.)

 

in Genesis 15:5 written roughly 1450-1410 BC, Jeremiah 33:22 roughly 627-585 BC & Hebrews 11:12 roughly 64-68 AD all say you can't count the stars in the sky... even with today's technology we have not answered "how many stars are there in the sky?"

 

Light travels in a path, darkness does not... Job 38:19 950 BC or earlier :thumbsup:

 

17 verses in the Bible state that God expanded the size of the Universe

 

scientists are still not sure of whether the universe is finite or infinite. The Bible appears to be very clear on the idea that it's finite. the link to 17 verses in the Bible state that God expanded the size of the Universe covers this

 

Joseph Silk: We don't know. The expanding Universe theory says that the Universe could expand forever [that corresponds to a 'flat' Universe]. And that is probably the model of the Universe that we feel closest to now. But it could also be finite, because it could be that the Universe has a very large volume now, but finite, and that that volume will increase, so only in the infinite future will it actually be infinite.

 

Earth floats freely in space: Job 26-7 950 BC

 

According to the Old Testament (Genesis 17:12), circumcision of newborn males was to be performed on the eighth day after birth....

Oddly enough, it is only on the 5th through the 7th days of the newborn male's life that vitamin K begins to be produced (the vitamin is normally produced by bacterial action in the intestinal tract). and it is only on day eight that the percentage of prothrombin climbs above 100% of normal! The only day in the entire life of the newborn that the blood clotting element prothrombin is that high is day eight. The best day for surgical procedure like circumcision is therefore day eight

 

Laughter can promote physical healing & Depression can be harmful to your physical health: Proverbs 17-22: 950 - 700 BC

 

Job 28-25 950 BC: Air has weight

 

Job 38:29-30: "From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?"

 

The phrase "surface of the deep is frozen" is a reference to ocean ice caps found only in the farthest reaches of the north. How could someone like Job or his contemporaries, living in the area of Saudi Arabia in ancient times, have known about polar ice caps? Not even the harshest winter could have produced a frozen ocean surface in that region of the world.

 

The course of trade winds: "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course." (Ecclesiastes 1:6)

 

(Psalm 8:8) "...and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas." : Ocean currents revealed?

 

"Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep?" (Job 38:16) The existence of hydrothermal springs?

 

"He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind. Who can understand how he spreads out the clouds, how he thunders from his pavilion?"

(Job 36:27-29) The hydrological cycle?

 

Hebrews 11:3 64-68 AD, 3By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

 

The first sub-atomic particle to be discovered by modern science was the electron. It was first discovered by J.J. Thomson in 1897!!!!! :o

 

 

it's quite interesting when you think about it, i mean the Bible saying these things LONG before scientist either thought to look or discovered them!

 

i'd love to hear your thoughts!

 

After a bit of digging around I found my study Bible, with a small amount of googling and some common sense I think I can answer all of your points.

 

 

The ancient Hebrews couldn't count how many stars there were. Neither could any ancient or even modern civilisation, I fail to see any point which could be made from this to prove the veracity of the bible.

 

The book of Job says nothing about light travelling in a path "Where is the way to the dwelling of light? And darkness, where is its place," Simply poetry, nothing whatsoever to do with science.

 

None of those 17 verses say that the universe is expanding, they say that God "stretched out the heavens" the one from Isaiah is particularly amusing as it suggests that the author believed the "heavens" were like a curtain or tent, whereas we're now fully aware that they're points in space separated by vast distances, not all spread out on one plane.

 

 

The Earth is suspended in space... and? I'd be impressed if it said that the reason the Earth is suspended in space is because it's in orbit around the sun. The idea that the Earth is floating in space is not a new one, the Ancient Greeks also thought this. Philolaus (480-385 BCE) even said that the Earth, moon, stars etc. were in orbit around a central fire. Clearly he was divinely inspired to know about the centre of the galaxy before modern astronomy had been discovered.

 

Did trial and error occur to you? Oh hey these babies keep bleeding to death if we circumcise them at any time before the 8th day... yeah lets make that one a rule.

 

It doesn't take a genius to realise that being cheerful is better than being depressed. Oh and two verses later it says "but a fool's eyes wander to the ends of the earth." What ends? Should I be taking these verses figuratively or literally?

 

Job 28:25 Big lols for that one... I realise these are just copied and pasted so it shouldn't be you that I'm blaming, but really... "When he established the force of the wind" does not mean "Air has weight"

 

Perhaps he entertained travellers from Scandinavia, or maybe he's just extrapolating the freezing of water that he was familiar with (snow and hail were mentioned earlier) and applying it to the oceans.

 

Any seagoing civilisation from the same period could easily tell you about winds in a whole lot more detail.

 

Ditto re: ocean currents.

 

Springs of the sea is not hydrothermal vents. If it said hole in ocean floor which hot water comes out it might be more convincing.

 

The water cycle is something that's been quite well understood for longer than recorded history, water falls out of clouds, when water gets hot it makes steam, steam looks similar to clouds, yeah they're probably essentially the same. Nothing which requires modern science to understand there.

 

I hardly think the Epistle to the Hebrews is intended as a science lesson. Hebrews 11 is about faith "being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" the author is talking about God when he says what we do not see. I've got no idea where you're getting sub-atomic particles from here.

 

These verses are also pretty much all from the most poetic, not-meant-to-be-taken-literally parts of the Bible that there are.

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i know some of them are a stretch but you have to admit :thumbsup: , its fair amazing that such things where written and thought about... in that period of time!

 

however my point about the stars where more that we still don't know how many there are.... and there are a few examples of space being "spread out" now weather it means "spaced out" or that it was together and was stretched its not conclusive... except the saying about space being spread out "like a curtain"

 

and regardless then saying it's "poetry" or nor, it was written... and as to weather we are meant to take the Bible literal or not i don't know. its interesting to ponder tho :thumbsup:

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Job 28:25 Big lols for that one... I realise these are just copied and pasted so it shouldn't be you that I'm blaming, but really... "When he established the force of the wind" does not mean "Air has weight"

 

 

 

air does have weight just because its light dont mean its weightless.

 

the bible was man-made 2000 odd years ago, just like science its prone to error. religion is also man-made, all created to give man a sense of belonging and morals to follow. the average joe back than were mostly barbaric and probably stupid needing reasons why they are there, i dont really think anyone could comprehend if the universe was infinite, its not imaginable there is no such thing right?!

 

but anyway thats not saying that there is no God, that will most likely never be proven and probably not necessary anyway. the thing is the bible, koran other scriptures, religion.. all man-made, God didnt make em they may say God did but they say alot of other things too which is blantantly false.

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Job 28:25 Big lols for that one... I realise these are just copied and pasted so it shouldn't be you that I'm blaming, but really... "When he established the force of the wind" does not mean "Air has weight"

 

 

 

air does have weight just because its light dont mean its weightless.

 

the bible was man-made 2000 odd years ago, just like science its prone to error. religion is also man-made, all created to give man a sense of belonging and morals to follow. the average joe back than were mostly barbaric and probably stupid needing reasons why they are there, i dont really think anyone could comprehend if the universe was infinite, its not imaginable there is no such thing right?!

 

but anyway thats not saying that there is no God, that will most likely never be proven and probably not necessary anyway. the thing is the bible, koran other scriptures, religion.. all man-made, God didnt make em they may say God did but they say alot of other things too which is blantantly false.

 

your right about it being Man made, and therefore errors will occur... but it fair amazing insight from "stupid" people so many years ago, and how specific some of it is... :mellow:

 

another thing that confounds many scientists is how the pyramids where made by such "primitive" people... how do evolutionists suggest the pyramids where made?

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another thing that confounds many scientists is how the pyramids where made by such "primitive" people... how do evolutionists suggest the pyramids where made?

by some f**king amazing people

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Why does everyone keep going on about 6000 years?

 

Nothing in the bible says the earth was created 6000 years ago. That’s just the earliest recollection of teachings from the bible.

 

Some Christians believe that it was created around 10 000 years ago, but that’s just a guess. God could have created it 1 billion years ago for all we know.

 

I still believe that for scientist to believe that something came from nothing is faith in itself and that an initial guess is needed for the rest of the theories to work.

 

No one will ever be able to convince me God doesn’t exist, because I know it to be true. But I don’t go on about how people that don’t believe in God are wrong. Yet all you people are calling people that believe in God stupid and ignorant.

 

In the end some of the smartest people on this planet are Christians and/or believe in God. So what make you so much smarter?

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Why does everyone keep going on about 6000 years?

 

Nothing in the bible says the earth was created 6000 years ago. That’s just the earliest recollection of teachings from the bible.

 

Some Christians believe that it was created around 10 000 years ago, but that’s just a guess. God could have created it 1 billion years ago for all we know.

 

I still believe that for scientist to believe that something came from nothing is faith in itself and that an initial guess is needed for the rest of the theories to work.

 

No one will ever be able to convince me God doesn’t exist, because I know it to be true. But I don’t go on about how people that don’t believe in God are wrong. Yet all you people are calling people that believe in God stupid and ignorant.

 

In the end some of the smartest people on this planet are Christians and/or believe in God. So what make you so much smarter?

 

 

well said... i also talked about the earth potentially being 6,000 to 10,000 years back on page 2 or 3 :thumbsup:

 

another thing that confounds many scientists is how the pyramids where made by such "primitive" people... how do evolutionists suggest the pyramids where made?

by some f**king amazing people

 

indeed

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Job 28:25 Big lols for that one... I realise these are just copied and pasted so it shouldn't be you that I'm blaming, but really... "When he established the force of the wind" does not mean "Air has weight"

 

 

 

air does have weight just because its light dont mean its weightless.

 

the bible was man-made 2000 odd years ago, just like science its prone to error. religion is also man-made, all created to give man a sense of belonging and morals to follow. the average joe back than were mostly barbaric and probably stupid needing reasons why they are there, i dont really think anyone could comprehend if the universe was infinite, its not imaginable there is no such thing right?!

 

but anyway thats not saying that there is no God, that will most likely never be proven and probably not necessary anyway. the thing is the bible, koran other scriptures, religion.. all man-made, God didnt make em they may say God did but they say alot of other things too which is blantantly false.

 

your right about it being Man made, and therefore errors will occur... but it fair amazing insight from "stupid" people so many years ago, and how specific some of it is... :mellow:

 

another thing that confounds many scientists is how the pyramids where made by such "primitive" people... how do evolutionists suggest the pyramids where made?

 

There is nothing magical or supernatural in the means by which they achieved their goals.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080328104302.htm

 

There's your question answered

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your right about it being Man made, and therefore errors will occur... but it fair amazing insight from "stupid" people so many years ago, and how specific some of it is... :mellow:

but if we are talking about god's word, shouldnt they be more specific and more accurate?

 

i think caustics done a good debunking of those parts of the bible, but lets say they did get a few facts right, hypothetically, my main concern wouldnt be with a few facts that are accurate, you make enough predictions, and probability says at least some should be right, it would be with just how many of their "facts" are plain wrong, i mean ur talking about the word of god, he should know his shit, everything should be 100% correct

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I still believe that for scientist to believe that something came from nothing is faith in itself and that an initial guess is needed for the rest of the theories to work.

not faith, science. its more of an issue of there is simply no widely accepted theory about before the big bang, unlike the theory of big bang itself which is widely accepted amongst the scientific circles

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I still believe that for scientist to believe that something came from nothing is faith in itself and that an initial guess is needed for the rest of the theories to work.

not faith, science. its more of an issue of there is simply no widely accepted theory about before the big bang, unlike the theory of big bang itself which is widely accepted amongst the scientific circles

 

can you explain that some more?

 

because it sounds like... "well we have not come up with anything else so... that will have to do" :S

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I don't really understand what you want said?

 

They don't know for certain, so they state, "we don't know for certain, but the current evidence suggests X"

 

Would you prefer them to say "We know this bit for certain, but this other bit, eh, it's a little bit hazy, we're not 100%, so we won't propose any of our ideas at all. What we're thinking will be a complete secret until we're 100% sure it's correct"

 

 

???

 

The reason they propose ideas and theories is so others can listen to them, do the experiments themselves and question them, then refine and improve their ideas. They're not saying "that will have to do" they're saying, this is what the current evidence says.

 

 

 

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Id just like to question that. First of all id like to ask, how is it that scientists first need some form of evidence that something happened, or was there, etc. Do they not search? say they claim that there was a dinosaur who was 30 meters high and 12" teeth, that would swallow a hippo in one bite, etc etc. Now if they told people that, who would believe them? no one, they need some evidence. Why is the bible not enough evidence? it clearly isint something written recently, its dated back thousands of years, and it is the most sold book ever and will be for years to come, so why cant this be enough evidence?

 

You're not seriously this stupid are you?

 

So if it's written in a book (that's discovered in 2000 years time) that there was a dinosaur who was 30 metres high and 12" teeth, that would swallow a hippo in one bite, etc etc it would be true would it, just because it was in a book.

 

do you know of any other book that has been written thousands of years ago? that humans have been using since it was written, and still is and still will be read???

and for people that believe the big bang theory, and i dont doubt it, i dont say it never happened, but why couldnt the big bang happen when god made the heavens and the earth? why couldnt god use the big bang to create the universe?

Use of the big bang theory incorporates radiation into its model.

You preach on like a devote christian, and believe that the earth has only been around for 6000 years, when the big bang theory states it's been around for alot longer.

WHICH ONE DO YOU f**king BELIEVE?

If you believe in the big bang, then you don't believe in a creator, because I recall god made everything in 7 days did he not? The big bang was instantaneous f**khead.

 

Jesus Christ.

I think you may be up for a Darwin award one day.

 

Theres what your not getting, the big bang is not proved to be true, ITS A THEORY, no solid evidence.

Now ask me which one i believe, after the THEORY has been proved to be true

You cant say that, every christian/believer has their own opinion, i for one dont disagree with the big bang, i believe, it could have happened, and probably did, why? because i think that the big bang was a part of when god first created the heavens and the earth, it could have happened, who knows, no one has proven it to be true yet.

Its just a theory. That means all the facts support its existence, but do not prove it without a doubt. There is no fact that anyone can disprove it either.

How can every christian/believer have their own opinion? That's bullshit. If they had their own opinion, why do all of you FOLLOW THE WRITINGS IN A BOOK?

If you believe the writings of the bible to be correct, then you CANNOT include the big bang into your belief. The bible doesn;t't teach it, and your religions' teachings label it as FALSE.

 

If you believe in the big bang, then you aren't following your religion, yet you still preach about it.

 

NO FACTS support the belief of gods existance. NOTHING MEASUREABLE supports the belief of gods existence.

FACTS support the theory of the big bang. MEASURABLE OBSERVATIONS/READINGS/CALCULATIONS etc all support the theory of the big bang.

 

Science 1 .. God 0.

 

edited for bootleg

 

Thats actually not true, i know many many strong believers that dont doubt the big bang, now when i say, i believe in it, and i dont doubt it, i dont mean, i believe in it happened by its self, i believe it didnt just fkn appear out of no where, and all of a sudden there is life, im saying, the big bang COULD have happened from WHEN THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH was created, can you see what my point is?

yes calculations, observations, readings, etc are there, and thats good, stop saying that im saying it never happened, cause i do believe it did happen, but not by its own.

 

Did you read what Caustic said? I'll post it again.

 

Nothing wrong with a theological big bang, although because we can reasonably accurately measure the speed and acceleration of the universe's expansion we do know that the big bang happened about 13-14 billion years ago - not 6,000.

 

Hence you CANNOT associate the big bang with the bible, due to 'science' being able to calculate the amount of time passed between today, and the big bang. (I dropped a hint on this awhile back. "Radiation.")

This amount of time was, as Caustic has mentioned, about 13-14billion years ago. You still think the earth is 6000 years old.

I think you need to line up your stories, because nothing adds up.

Do some research on your actual religion, because it seems you still don't understand it yet.

Also you may want to do some research on the big bang theory, considering your belief is that god made the big bang?

Theres been plenty of links posted..

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I still believe that for scientist to believe that something came from nothing is faith in itself and that an initial guess is needed for the rest of the theories to work.

not faith, science. its more of an issue of there is simply no widely accepted theory about before the big bang, unlike the theory of big bang itself which is widely accepted amongst the scientific circles

 

can you explain that some more?

 

because it sounds like... "well we have not come up with anything else so... that will have to do" :S

well string theory is i believe the leading theory of "everything"(possibly an explanation for the big bang), but im not physicist so im not gonna try and explain it all, but afaik it's a theory that kind of meshes with what we do know, without having any significant, independent proof itself, as quite simply it's just beyond our current technological grasp.

 

i dunno, maybe someone who understands string theory can explain it as i still cant get my head around it

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another thing that confounds many scientists is how the pyramids where made by such "primitive" people... how do evolutionists suggest the pyramids where made?

 

Where has it been sugggested that ancient Egyptians were 'primitive'? Can't say I've ever heard/read of them being described as that. They had an amazing knowledge of architecture, a complex hierachal society, recorded (in detail) their lives, a national barter system & so on.

 

If there was anything 'primitive' about their lives in terms of a modern viewpoint it would be that they believed in gods of some sort - as belief in a higher form is a primitive way to explain the how, what, why, when of the universe, humanity, etc.

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It goes for an hour, so yeah if you're almost over your cap you should watch it at work.

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The universe is such a huge and complicated thing of course man kind has not figured it all out yet and likely we never will. However, just because we do not know for certain how things happened or began, it does not mean god did it. It simply means we do not know. Science not being able to explain something is not evidence that god exists.

 

The idea that the content of the bible is fact because it has been around for a long time and is wide spread is funny. In many cases through out history, Christianity was spread by people with a bible in one hand and a sword in the other. Then there was all the burnings etc of pagans and others who refused to convert. Is it any wonder that the book became so common with such a marketing campaign?

 

Scientology is taking off. if you were alive in a couple thousand years do you think you would take it as fact?

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Personally I believe there is a higher being - definatly not jesus'dad of whatever the fk .. But i've acepted there are some things in life I will never know the answer to - what was i before - what will i be after etc .. I think this is something that makes life so special .. the fact we know so little .

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religion was created for those who are weak minded, and in bad times need something that can comfort them.

 

basically like a safety net, a higher being.

if your wife was sick, who would you ask for help? itd kinda sound stupid to prey to somebody who is a living being and has no power to try change the situation. thus god(s) were created. a higher being in which to give people in need hope/belief.

 

dont people get it? once your dead. your dead. you aint gonna turn into a animal, nor will you be re born into another human.

 

 

simple.

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here's a thought on this flood. geological records have confirmed that some of the eath did flood around the rough time specified in the bible, i use the word some sparingly as it was far from the whole world, far from even 20% of the world. just one place.

now to someone who doesn't know of different continents across the water it would appear is if their whole world flooded, but certainly far from the truth.

 

i think my ancient history teacher summed it up best with her thoughts, ignore the religous stuff in it and it's like a stylised account of history.

 

i'd like to see some evidence. such flood nutters believe the world is only 6000 years old, so yeh, i have doubts any possible evidence with lineup with the bible.

i'll have to do some digging but i remember it somewhere, you must remember although we are talking a massive flood it was localized to a particular region, hence it's appearance in the bible, as they may have viewed it as the "whole world" in their vantage point.

 

religion was created for those who are weak minded, and in bad times need something that can comfort them.

 

basically like a safety net, a higher being.

if your wife was sick, who would you ask for help? itd kinda sound stupid to prey to somebody who is a living being and has no power to try change the situation. thus god(s) were created. a higher being in which to give people in need hope/belief.

 

dont people get it? once your dead. your dead. you aint gonna turn into a animal, nor will you be re born into another human.

 

 

simple.

 

 

there have been a few studies which have concluded the human mind is predisposed to believe in a higher power, something to give them purpose.

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religion was created for those who are weak minded, and in bad times need something that can comfort them.

 

basically like a safety net, a higher being.

if your wife was sick, who would you ask for help? itd kinda sound stupid to prey to somebody who is a living being and has no power to try change the situation. thus god(s) were created. a higher being in which to give people in need hope/belief.

 

dont people get it? once your dead. your dead. you aint gonna turn into a animal, nor will you be re born into another human.

 

 

simple.

ok. we're getting somewhere here. let me extrapolate from this notion of death. what exactly are we. are we living cells? well, not really. we are embodied by living cells, but people in a coma are also living cells. the difference between someone in a coma and someone who is conscious is, well, consciousness. brain activity. some people will say then that we are the cells of the brain - BUT this isn't even so. it's actually the electrical impulses moving around your brain in patterns/sequences that generate this phenomenon known as consciousness. hopefully one day we would be able to synthesize this state of being and we won't need the biological portion anymore, along with a lot of other things the human biological brain has brought along that is just plain lugguage.

 

so in essence, we - as in "we" are just electical impulses flowing in a pattern. Not just any pattern, a specific pattern with a specific signature BUT also not just a specific pattern or signature, but THAT (points to your head) specific instance of the pattern/signature. THAT is you. That is what confounds scientists with no explanation in the physical world. Yes, WE are energy. pure energy. but we experience this reality through such energy. that is the only requirement, it seems, for consiousness to exist in this realm. Energy and matter are what make up the universe, and the biological systems are more a means to an end - that end being the ability to support conscious thought (NOT necessarily "CREATE" the consiousness - but provide an interface so that this consiousness can experience this reality via a form of biology).

 

consciousness shouldn't be mistaken for one's "identity". identity is easy to explain and replicate. like on a computer, you can "backup" your memories and "restore" them if the hardware fails... but unlike pure hardware, what if you backed yourself up and restored yourself to another clone of "you" - how can you be sure that the real YOU will be experiencing what this new clone is doing. From everyone elses perspective, it will act, think and do things exactly like you - because as far as the physical world is concerned, it IS you, but the bigger question is, when this new clone opens its eyes each morning, are "you" going to be experiencing the light hitting the retina? thus one part of what makes us "us" in this human form is physical / biological - is thoughts and memories, the other is "perception of reality". to perceive this universe, even if our consciousness can't be defined or understood scientifically or explained scientifically, we know that our perception of reality is rooted firmly within the biological organism that surrounds us. our memories are stored as synapse connections. our thoughts are regions in the brain. those can be studied, altered and ultimately understood as they are physical phenomena. but the "perception of reality" part of consciousness or simply "being" is something science as yet can't find any way to define. when you open your biological eyes, you see out into this world. why is that? why don't you see the light that's entering someone elses eyes? why is it that you - as in YOU - only perceive reality through this particular biological entity and no other? there is nothing in science that describes this. it's like if human beings were computers with monitor screens playing a FPS... and "something else" is sitting at the computer just watching what is going on. that's "you" :) even though everything required for this biology to function in the world exists physically, we cannot describe the reasons why we "experience" reality always through one being, or why "we" even experience anything at all. why this body? why right now? what extra connection exists? - in other words, what are you in essence? or would you call this extra undefinable portion a religious notion of the "soul"? and perhaps if we built machines would they have one? so, what are some of the many ways to test this out scientifically? well, if we created another "copy" of you, something else in this world contains all your thoughts and memories - BUT isn't you. science defines both entities as being the same and nothing one has the other lacks - YET we will only experience our life through one of them.

 

if we created a copy of you and killed the original you, will you be dead? Answer: Yes - of course you would. the fact that there exists another copy of you right down to the configuration of atoms makes no difference at all to the fact that "you" are dead when we killed the original.

 

if we created a copy of you, and you both went to sleep. would "you" (as in, the ability to "see" out of a living organism and "experience" the world through a living organism) still be anchored to the original you, or could you float over to the other you since it is anatomically the same? answer: no. your consciousness is bound to the current biological entity if you wish to continue to interface with this plane of existence.

 

once we die, we may decouple from the baryonic matter that encompasses this particular form of consciousness - but does dead really then mean dead? how about this: the universe may eventually spin down aver 10^100 years time - but 10^100 is so far from infinity :) you might as well be 10^1 or 10^2 (if you live to be 100), so if we assume then that the universe is being reborn every now and then, that means that the universe is being born an infinite number of times. thus the possiblity of matter reorganising itself into universes / planes of existence not too dissimilar to what we are experiencing now are not only extremely high - they are an absolute certainty if we are talking about an infinite universe.

 

so... even though you don't remember (as memories are a function of the biological portion of our consiousness) yet the "windows to the soul" as in every morning you wake up and you are always looking out of the same physical body each day, day after day since you were born, this consciousness, this "experience" or "phenomenon" that we all personally experience doesn't have a physical world explanation. this could reoccur an infinite number of times in alternate universes that happen in planes of existence that are a part of an infinite cycle of reality.

 

so, dead may not really mean dead... but most certainly you'll not remember or have any idea of the perhaps billion billion billion billion billion billion quadrillion octillion years between these "reality" experiences and how many countless versions of the universe that have happened since the last time that your lotto numbers came up. :)

 

what would you call it then? "reincarnation?" :) as many people may view this as what simple minded primitives clutch on to, ok SURE there is a simple primitive way of looking at it, only taking into account very few things, but if you bend your mind the other way far enough, you still meet similar possiblities but its far from simple minded reasoning.

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religion was created for those who are weak minded, and in bad times need something that can comfort them.

 

basically like a safety net, a higher being.

if your wife was sick, who would you ask for help? itd kinda sound stupid to prey to somebody who is a living being and has no power to try change the situation. thus god(s) were created. a higher being in which to give people in need hope/belief.

 

dont people get it? once your dead. your dead. you aint gonna turn into a animal, nor will you be re born into another human.

 

 

simple.

 

Well if athiests are right, both will die , with either happy or miserable lifes... The end.

 

But if Christians a right.... Your screwed :whistle:

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Once the LHC is up and running at full capacity for a while we should get some serious data backing up the Big Bang or maybe even data that shows us a different scenario.

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Well if athiests are right, both will die , with either happy or miserable lifes... The end.

 

But if Christians a right.... Your screwed :whistle:

But if atheists are right then these 80 odd years on Earth are all that we have. I'd certainly rather not waste them believing something just in case.

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Well if athiests are right, both will die , with either happy or miserable lifes... The end.

 

But if Christians a right.... Your screwed :whistle:

But if atheists are right then these 80 odd years on Earth are all that we have. I'd certainly rather not waste them believing something just in case.

 

Well I believe my life is genuinly happier and furfiling as a Christian, I will never have any regrets.

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