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dezz

Failed goals...

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Your bench is pissweak for your weight and amount of time training. I think we've figured out why your chest is lagging.

Thanks for your valuable feedback...My bench is weak because my chest is lagging and my chest is lagging because my bench is weak.

 

If you don't have anything positive to add don't bother posting

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Unlike some I'm not interested in 'benching big' for the sake of benching big. I workout to look good, I'm not interested in any power lifting competitions or telling people how big my 1RM's are...

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What's your point?

 

If you bench to be strong, you will look good.

 

Try it one day, or keep dismissing my advice, and have keep complaining about your chest.

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The only advice I've seen you give me is to push weight overhead. Did I dismiss it?

 

What you posted before was nothing like advice and not constructive in any way. I was the first one to say my bench was weak, I don't need it rubbed in my face by anyone else

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No wonder this forum has gone to the shlt with some of the attitudes on show in this thread. :doh:

 

Dezz, I'm in the same boat as you mate (though not your size). My chest has always been my weakest link, and I never seem to have issues with back strength in comparison to chest strength, even with time off from the gym. Your story reads nearly exactly the same as mine so I've been checking out this thread with a bit of interest to see how you deal with it, and what decisions you end up making.

 

I have a feeling that my tri's might be holding me back somewhat with my bench as that's what seems to tire out first, so I think working on that and then seeing how I progress may be key. With playing Ice Hockey again my time in the gym is suffering, as is my leg workouts for the same reason as you (recovery times prior to games), so I want to get the most effective workout for my chest in as little time as possible. Having said that a few friends of mine bench less than I do and have much better chests so looks like genetics is having its say!

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No wonder this forum has gone to the shlt with some of the attitudes on show in this thread. :doh:

 

Dezz, I'm in the same boat as you mate (though not your size). My chest has always been my weakest link, and I never seem to have issues with back strength in comparison to chest strength, even with time off from the gym. Your story reads nearly exactly the same as mine so I've been checking out this thread with a bit of interest to see how you deal with it, and what decisions you end up making.

 

I have a feeling that my tri's might be holding me back somewhat with my bench as that's what seems to tire out first, so I think working on that and then seeing how I progress may be key. With playing Ice Hockey again my time in the gym is suffering, as is my leg workouts for the same reason as you (recovery times prior to games), so I want to get the most effective workout for my chest in as little time as possible. Having said that a few friends of mine bench less than I do and have much better chests so looks like genetics is having its say!

Yeah Dane, I think at the end of the day, most of it is controlled by genetics. I get accused or told that I'm on steroids on a regular basis because of the size or look of my arms...My response is always something along the lines of, 'if I'm on steroids and I look like this, I want my money back'

 

As far as your weakness being your triceps, I don't think it's the same for me, because my triceps were always the biggest part of my arm as far back as I can remember...I think that might have something to do with taking to much of the weight off my chest when benching etc...

 

As for what I'm gonna do now, I think I'm gonna pretty much scrap my current program and try to change it up completely, worst case is I'll be at the same point I'm at now anyway.

 

What's even more frustrating at the moment is that my lower back and glutes are f**ked, so I'm having a lot of trouble squatting or deadlifting, and it's killing my motivation...Today was supposed to be leg day, but that's not gonna happen. I'm gonna head down there now and do some bench and press stuff so at least I'm doing something and not just throwing in the towel completely..

 

As for steroids, I'm finding it harder and harder to resist doing a cycle. After all these years and basically failing to achieve what I want, I'm tempted to get on it and see what comes of it...

 

Also agree with you 100% on some of the attitudes and how this forum has changed..

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I feel the same whn benching, that perhaps my shoulders are doing more of the work as they're stronger than my chest and so have tried to ensure I'm doing more close-grip stuff. Have you done much of that?

 

I know what you mean RE the frustration. I hurt my knee a few months back and am trying to let it recover so avoiding squats and heavy deads (last thing I want is a reco). Makes the sessions a touch frustrating as I feel I'm not achieveing when not doing a heavy workout.

 

Will be interesting to see what comes of it if you do decide to go the cycle route. I'm not into it purely because I'm only into what I can maintain without full dedication and being able to live my current lifestyle. It may sound like a cop out with that attitude toward the gym, but at the end of the day there's a lot of other things more important to me than selling tickets to the gun show!

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Yeah I feel the same with my shoulders doing the work on bench...haven't been doing any close grip stuff lately, but as I said I think I need to mix it up with a whole new program, so I might throw some close grip bench in as well, just hope it hits my chest and not just the triceps...

 

I know what you're saying with other things more important...I'm the same, and to be honest I'm happy with my general size at the moment, I don't need to be massive, and the only reason I'll get on the gear (if I do) is in the hope that my chest will improve..

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Lose the attitude, you don't need a big chest to bench big.

 

I suggest you look in the mirror Liam. I have to be honest and say that you act like the biggest tool in the fitness section.

 

In future, perhaps try to use some tact.

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LOL at whinging about the attitudes, anyway.

 

Get strong in the bench press/ overhead press, it will grow.

 

Going on gear won't change your genetics.

 

Do only close grip bench, jerks from the rack, push presses and military presses, the chest plays a huge stablising role in all of these excercises. Work in the 1-5 rep range, increase the weights EVERY session and eat like crazy, make sure your squatting and deadlifting at the same time.

 

If your chest doesn't grow after this, well your not doing it right.

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You'll probably get better advice on AusBB.com

 

Most of what you've mentioned sounds like high-rep low weight training.

Have you tried powerlifting style low-rep higher weights?

 

Have you tried Markos PPP program?

What is your workout routine? The entire thing, not just the bench... :)

 

EDIT: What grip do you use on the bench?

And why is everyone recommending a narrow grip? I find that a narrow grip hits triceps, wider grip hits the pecs more...

 

Have you tried dropping by PTC for a session or two? Might improve your workouts if your in Melbourne :)

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You'll probably get better advice on AusBB.com

 

Most of what you've mentioned sounds like high-rep low weight training.

Have you tried powerlifting style low-rep higher weights?

 

Have you tried Markos PPP program?

What is your workout routine? The entire thing, not just the bench... :)

 

EDIT: What grip do you use on the bench?

And why is everyone recommending a narrow grip? I find that a narrow grip hits triceps, wider grip hits the pecs more...

 

Have you tried dropping by PTC for a session or two? Might improve your workouts if your in Melbourne :)

 

I did a 5x5 for a while maybe a year or more back...didn't feel like I was doing anything after I'd leave the gym so I went back to 3x8-10... I'm gonna up the weights on what I've been doing 8-10'S on, and go for 5-6 reps, if only for a much needed change in program.

 

I did buy the PPP program, but never actually put it into practice...I've still got it so when I actually get some time I'll go over it again and try implement it.

 

Grip on bench (when I do bb bench instead of db's) is probably about shoulder width or just past....Only other way I can explain it, my hands are about a thumb length away from the smooth part of the bar (sorry don't know the technical name). If I go wider, it doesn't feel like I'm using my pecs at all, if I go to narrow, feels more like a tricep exercise...

 

Here's pretty much the program I've been on for a while now...I'll throw in some other stuff here and there to change it up, but like I said above it's pretty routine and I could definitely do with a big shake up.

 

Usually train 3-4 times a week.

 

day 1

Chest/tris

 

BB decline 3x8-10,usually 30-32.5kg db's (moved it to the start of the session to try hit the lower pecs as much as possible, less fatigued than doing it after flat and incline)

BB flat bench 3x8-10, usually with around 35kg DB's

BB incline 2/3x8-10 with 30-32.5kg db's

incline db flys, 3x8-10 17.5-20kg db's

might do some cables after that if I don't feel much in the chest so far..

then I'll finish off with some parralel bar dips to hit the tris, which I'm already feeling from the pressing, and I'll lean forward to hit the chest a bit more

 

Day 2

back/bis

 

wide grip pull ups 3x8-10

close grip lat pull down, 3x8-10 with 15-16 of whatever the weights on the stack are (weight isn't shown, but think the stack only goes up to 20, think they're 10 pounds each)

seated cable row 3x8-10, can pretty much do almost the whole stack, 100+kg and get 10 reps on the 3rd set without too much trouble, working hard though

would normally deadlift after that, but with the f**ked lower back/glutes I haven't been...Had only just gotten back into it after not doing them while playing footy, was up to about 3x8-10 100kg after a few weeks of doing them before I stopped with the injuries...Just been doing another lower back exercise in the meantime so that I'm at least doing something with the muscles

finish off with 2-3 sets of barbell curls or 2 and a set of hammers etc...

 

day 3

legs

 

squats 3x10, was at 100kg after a few weeks

45deg leg press, 3x10, only at like 275-300kg, used to do 420kg before I stopped to play footy

db lunges 3x10 each leg, 20kg db's

calf raises 3x10 50-60kgs

hamstring curls, nothing special there with the busted hammies

if I'm ever gonna do abs I'll throw it in at the end of a leg session

 

day 4

shoulders

 

used to be db press or military press but dropped it when I felt my front delts were getting too big for the rest of me, used to MP 60kg or so for 10reps

db lateral raises, 3x10 20kg db's

seated rear db raises 3x10 20kg db's

db shrugs 3x10 with 45-50kg db's

 

So yeah that's pretty much it, feel free to criticise the shit out of it. Thinking about trying to get back into the skinny guy routine, just need to get into it and stick with it, get used to it so I can recover quick enough to do it 3 days a week...

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You'll probably get better advice on AusBB.com

 

Most of what you've mentioned sounds like high-rep low weight training.

Have you tried powerlifting style low-rep higher weights?

 

Have you tried Markos PPP program?

What is your workout routine? The entire thing, not just the bench... :)

 

EDIT: What grip do you use on the bench?

And why is everyone recommending a narrow grip? I find that a narrow grip hits triceps, wider grip hits the pecs more...

 

Have you tried dropping by PTC for a session or two? Might improve your workouts if your in Melbourne :)

 

I did a 5x5 for a while maybe a year or more back...didn't feel like I was doing anything after I'd leave the gym so I went back to 3x8-10... I'm gonna up the weights on what I've been doing 8-10'S on, and go for 5-6 reps, if only for a much needed change in program.

 

I did buy the PPP program, but never actually put it into practice...I've still got it so when I actually get some time I'll go over it again and try implement it.

So yeah that's pretty much it, feel free to criticise the shit out of it. Thinking about trying to get back into the skinny guy routine, just need to get into it and stick with it, get used to it so I can recover quick enough to do it 3 days a week...

 

Strange, I found wider grip, as in on the rings of the bar to hit a different part of the pecs a little more, and less triceps. However, getting a stronger bench means a stronger chest.

 

Your workout routine has quite a bit of isolation, drop by PTC for a session its only $20 and unlimited training time. Open from 10:30AM on Sat :)

 

I'd focus on doing more full-body workouts, I would add squatting, it will cause your entire body to grow. However you mentioned some injuries so I'm not sure how to work around them.

Deadlifting, which you mentioned you can't do :(

 

My workout routines are pretty much:

Squat

Bench

Deadlift

Military Press

 

Occasionally chinup's / dips :)

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i hear that some people are more shoulder dominant in the bench press than others

to get around this they pre-exhaust the muscle first. for example adding a fews sets of db flys in first then do your benching

not saying it will change your world lol but something worth trying

 

just to let you know this is more of a strength based forum, you post a body part split routine and you will be flamed lol

imo you would probably be better off looking elsewhere for physique bodybuilding advice

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DW mate, Im on the same boat. my chest is the hardest to grow and i put it down to genetics. I notice lots of gains lately those due to less reps and more weights. keep at it mate, they will grow.

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Yeah it's definitely a genetic thing, just gotta try to get the best out of what I've been given I guess...

 

I've gone to 5x5/6 on bench, and gonna throw in some more overhead stuff as well.

Also trying the 100 rep thing that 'Fadi' guy mentioned in the ausbb link.

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bodybuilding and powerlifting are two different things. One's goal is to build muscle for size and definition, other's goal is build for strength. Cables/dumbells build chests, Bench's build ego's ;)

Shock your chest. Example of my usual chest workout. Warm up with bench press e.g. 1x25 (till you feel a nice pump and have the momentum) Dumbbell press flat, incline w/ dumbells/, vertical dips, then cable fly's (low,middle,then upper chest flys). If you're keen, do supersets with a slightly lighter weight til fail. Squeeeeeeeze out every movement as if you were flexing at peak movement, slowly back then nice and strong comming back up. Dont over train, dont sacrifice formation for motion, and stay safe, dont risk injury. The most common way to get a shoulder injury is doing chest workouts! And Im sure 1 chest day a week is enough. Your mind builds muscle! Dont be scared, Train hard!

 

As Branch Warren said... "'Light Days'?? What's that? Some kind of f**kin' tampon?!"

 

good luck

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Thanks for the different perspective...I thought I made it pretty clear in the first post that I wasn't interested in benching big numbers for the sake of it...Sure we all want some strength, obviously some more than others (power lifters) but for me it's about achieving a look first and foremost.

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Thanks for the different perspective...I thought I made it pretty clear in the first post that I wasn't interested in benching big numbers for the sake of it...Sure we all want some strength, obviously some more than others (power lifters) but for me it's about achieving a look first and foremost.

 

Ok sure, but you can't get big without been reasonably strong. While powerlifting isn't about getting huge, you do *get* big by doing some powerlifting.

 

So its worth a try, especially if your current workouts are not working :)

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Being strong & being big are very much one and the same, ie I don't know many people who bench over 100kg and have a small chest. Chasing numbers short and long term goals is a good way to keep yourself motivated and along the way you'll build the physique you want.

 

Keep in mind this stuff isn't going to happen in weeks, it will take a couple of months to properly change your build, concentrate on the training and takes pictures and measurements every 3-6 months. If you get hungup on not reaching your physique goals quickly you'll quit and never achieve them. Motivate yourself with lifts and let the other stuff happen on it's own. Simply put if you are chasing bench & overhead press goals your chest can only go one way and that is bigger.

Edited by 7MA61

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Thanks for the different perspective...I thought I made it pretty clear in the first post that I wasn't interested in benching big numbers for the sake of it...Sure we all want some strength, obviously some more than others (power lifters) but for me it's about achieving a look first and foremost.

 

Ok sure, but you can't get big without been reasonably strong. While powerlifting isn't about getting huge, you do *get* big by doing some powerlifting.

 

So its worth a try, especially if your current workouts are not working :)

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying at all. Just trying to be clear that I am training to look good. I know the attitude towards that kind of mindset is usually laughed at in here, but that doesn't bother me.. If I look good I'll be happy, even if I'm benching 10kg db's lol

 

I know strength comes with size, and I'll make the changes I said above and hope they result in some better shape/size in the chest...

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Im the same in that my arms and shoulders grow with ease yet my chest lacks. I found that my shoulders were taking over in the bench. Im 90kg's and when i hit the 100 kg mark my shoulders cain. Now, the fronts of my shoulders are out of perportion to the rears.

 

Everyone is differant so the key is to work out what works for you. I dropped the weight significantly and used dumbells for a few months to make sure my form was perfect and I could feel it all im my chest. Squeeze through the whole movement as previously mentioned. Once i could go 3 x 10 without my shoulders taking over, i'd increase the weight slightly. If the shoulders took over i would back off the weight. I woudl suggest this or maybe barbell works better for you? The only way to find out is to get in there and play around with all the movements.

 

It was a slow a tedious process benching 40kg's when you know you can do heaps more but its critical to get the technique right. Im still slowly building up but i have already noticed the differnace in my chest. Its taking ages cause im retraining after 4 years of bad technique.

 

Hope that helps.

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Try some chest dips (with weight attached) supersetted with heavy db flys. 3 sets of 10 reps (for both) and your chest should thicken up and fill out more.

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Strong bench = big chest. Focus more on a strength style program for bench for a while. Look into Wendler's 5/3/1. Its worked great for me and the assistance work can be kept bb'er style if you so desire.

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bodybuilding and powerlifting are two different things. One's goal is to build muscle for size and definition, other's goal is build for strength. Cables/dumbells build chests, Bench's build ego's ;)

 

That's one of the dumbest things I have ever read. BB'ing and powerlifting are actually not that different in goals or practice. Strength helps build size, size helps build strength. The only real difference is their attitudes to dieting and competition attire. BB'ing evolved from powerlifting in the first place and a lot of the early bb'ers were powerlifters first before they stepped on stage.

 

Pressing heavy weight builds chest. Cables are masturbation.

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bodybuilding and powerlifting are two different things. One's goal is to build muscle for size and definition, other's goal is build for strength. Cables/dumbells build chests, Bench's build ego's ;)

 

That's one of the dumbest things I have ever read. BB'ing and powerlifting are actually not that different in goals or practice. Strength helps build size, size helps build strength. The only real difference is their attitudes to dieting and competition attire. BB'ing evolved from powerlifting in the first place and a lot of the early bb'ers were powerlifters first before they stepped on stage.

 

+1

 

To the op, have you read this one on AusBB 10 rules to getting big? Its in the bodybuilding section :P

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Strong bench = big chest. Focus more on a strength style program for bench for a while. Look into Wendler's 5/3/1. Its worked great for me and the assistance work can be kept bb'er style if you so desire.

 

Not all the time.

 

You can have a big chest and bench big.

You can have a shit chest and bench big.

You can have big chest and bench weak.

You can have a shit chest and bench weak.

 

So much bullshit floating around. Most of you don't know much about bodybuilding, it's quite obvious. yes, you want to be strong, The stronger you are the more weight you can push around. However, the training style of bodybuilding to strength training is completely different.

 

Dezz, i just road a post up the top that said you bench a thumb out from the knurling, because if you go wider you dont feel it. Go wider.

Even if you don't feel it, you'll be using you chest more.

that's what i did. I benched very close to the knurling, had a good bench but shit chest.

Since moving it out my chest has got better, bench weaker but due to new grip position, and it took a while to to actually feel it in my pecs as they were'nt used to it.

Still try to squeeze your pecs like you do when you do close grip benching, but even if it feels silly cause you cant feel it, keep doing it.

 

And smash heavy flyes. And i mean heavy flyes.

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Strong bench = big chest. Focus more on a strength style program for bench for a while. Look into Wendler's 5/3/1. Its worked great for me and the assistance work can be kept bb'er style if you so desire.

 

Not all the time.

 

You can have a big chest and bench big.

You can have a shit chest and bench big.

You can have big chest and bench weak.

You can have a shit chest and bench weak.

 

So much bullshit floating around. Most of you don't know much about bodybuilding, it's quite obvious. yes, you want to be strong, The stronger you are the more weight you can push around. However, the training style of bodybuilding to strength training is completely different.

 

Nothing's ever 100% but most of the time what I said will ring true.

 

I trained bb'ing style for quite a few years before I turned to powerlifting and packed on quite a bit of mass and strength in the process so I have a fair idea of what I'm talking about. Hypertrophy is still an important part of powerlifting training as more muscle = more strength and joint support. Unfortunately Weider and bro-science has polluted much of what passes at bb'ing training these days but the essentials are the same.

 

Please feel free to try and clear up any of my misconceptions. How do bb'ing and pl'ing differ so much?

Edited by El Freako

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Still reading and taking it all in guys, keep it all coming

 

Simon, I'll give it a go. Been back on the DB's because I'm training alone and was going for 5x5 with a heavier weight, so when I fail with DB's I don't end up with a cracked sternum, but like you said you're benching less weight with the wider grip anyway...Also started military pressing again, about 50kgx8-10, just wanna ease back into it so I don't flare up that trap/back injury. Also dead lifted for the first time in a few months the other day, started off pretty light, 75-80kg for 10 reps, pulled up ok so I'll keep going, just gotta keep my ego in check and not try to dead what I was doing back in the day too soon, coz I know I'll re-injure myself if I do.

 

Squatted again this week as well, 95-100kg 3x8-10 without too much difficulty.

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