Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jonesl

Kinugawa turbo's (kando) comparison.

Recommended Posts

^ good find. Thread should be cleaned up as their is some good information on here. I'll be testing the TD06 SL2 20g on e85 soon. Will post up my results.

8cm or 10cm? Internal or External gate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^ good find. Thread should be cleaned up as their is some good information on here. I'll be testing the TD06 SL2 20g on e85 soon. Will post up my results.
8cm or 10cm? Internal or External gate?

 

10cm External

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one posting any good info aye??

 

Having used these turbos I am a fan. I was running about 220kW on 20psi with standard cams, these were holding the car back a ton! Unfortunately a rod bearing spun before we got the opportunity to play with the cams (looks like the person who screwed the engine together previously screwed up the bearing clearences, tapered mains etc).

 

I am now rebuilding the engine and will be running cams. I have also opted for a proper external gate housing as the internal gate was not up to the job!

 

The first configuration:

SR20DET S13

Forged Bottom End

Standard Top End (slight porting)

Standard inlet / exhaust manifolds

TD06SL2, 3" front cover, Nissan T25 rear housing (internal gate)

3" straight through exhaust

Internal gate setup with 1 bar Mitsubishi Actuator.

 

This setup was laggy and creeped up to 18psi. I had ported the crap out of the eBay Split dump and the turbine housing, this is best you can manage with the internal gate I believe. This setup is the red line on the first graph. You can see the difference running extra boost made. Came on hard but died up the top, the housing / cams just became too restrictive. Ignore the green line.

 

DSCF5700.jpg

 

Now after this I bolted the internal gate shut. Fitted an eBay 3mm stainless manifold I had (modified for MVR 44mm Wastegate) and an eBay Bellmouth dump pipe. With this setup Boost control is amazing, 10psi spring setup, no creep at all. running 20 psi it spat out the red line on the graph below. The RPM trace seems to not match up correctly though, I definitely have full boost of 20psi a tad after 3500rpm not 4100 as the power / torque curves indicate.

 

The first configuration REVISED:

SR20DET S13

Forged Bottom End

Standard Top End (slight porting)

Standard inlet manifold

eBay low mount Manifold, modified for external gate

TiAL MVR 44, 10psi springs

TD06SL2, 3" front cover, Nissan T25 rear housing (internal gate bolted shut)

3" straight through exhaust

 

This setup was much more responsive, boost comes on hard (because of the way I have it setup in the Vi-Pec) and was much more enjoyable to drive.

 

The Blue line is the very first setup and was a worn out TD06H with proper external gate housing. This has the larger turbine wheel than the SL2 but also had the proper Trust 3 bolt external gate housing. The dyno was showing this having full boost over 20psi not much after 3000rpm and was also on a completly stock engine >_

 

The Blue Line configuration:

SR20DET S13

Standard Engine

Standard inlet manifold

 

eBay low mount Manifold, modified for external gate

TiAL MVR 44, 20psi spring

TD06H, 3" front cover, Trust 3 bolt 8cm housing

3" straight through exhaust

 

 

DSCF5701.jpg

 

It is worth noting the red line was done by an engine later found to have a static compression of 110psi dry (150psi wet) and a leak down result of 55% leak. These need to be considered. Also the second dyno results are on a very conservative dyno. That is why I am saying I think the 262hp is closer to 220kW.

 

I am just in the process of building up a new engine and will post a dyno sheet of it soon (aiming for a supersprint on Jan 22!)

 

Specs of the new unit:

SR20DET S13

87mm CP Pistons

Manely Rods

Head and Block Skimmed

Cosworth Headgasket

ARP bolts / studs throughout

HKS 264 / 272 cams (In / Ex)

eBay Manifold and MVR Wastegate setup

custom dump into 3" straight exhaust

TD06SL2 with 3" front cover, ext. 8cm housing (T2 inlet to 3 bolt outlet)

 

I have also sold the Vi-Pec plugin ecu and will now be running a full wire-in DTA S60 Pro and also have an ID1000 fuel setup to match the Surge and 044 fuel pump already on the car. Hoping to crack the 250 mark as that will be about all I can really put down.

 

And here are some videos.

 

The Car at Wakefield in 200kw, laggy 18psi internal gate mode, yet did a 1:08.8 without much effort:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS1nUQSfDYk

 

Eastern Creek in the wet with the external gate and about 220kW

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5gbFBf2kLc

Edited by ae86racer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one posting any good info aye??

 

Having used these turbos I am a fan. I was running about 220kW on 20psi with standard cams, these were holding the car back a ton! Unfortunately a rod bearing spun before we got the opportunity to play with the cams (looks like the person who screwed the engine together previously screwed up the bearing clearences, tapered mains etc).

 

I am now rebuilding the engine and will be running cams. I have also opted for a proper external gate housing as the internal gate was not up to the job!

 

The first configuration:

Forged Bottom End

Standard Top End (slight porting)

Standard inlet / exhaust manifolds

3" straight through exhaust

Internal gate setup with 1 bar Mitsubishi Actuator.

 

This setup was laggy and creeped up to 18psi. I had ported the crap out of the eBay Split dump and the turbine housing, this is best you can manage with the internal gate I believe. This setup is the red line on the first graph. You can see the difference running extra boost made. Came on hard but died up the top, the housing / cams just became too restrictive. Ignore the green line.

 

 

Now after this I bolted the internal gate shut. Fitted an eBay 3mm stainless manifold I had (modified for MVR 44mm Wastegate) and an eBay Bellmouth dump pipe. With this setup Boost control is amazing, 10psi spring setup, no creep at all. running 20 psi it spat out the red line on the graph below. The RPM trace seems to not match up correctly though, I definitely have full boost of 20psi a tad after 3500rpm not 4100 as the power / torque curves indicate.

 

The Blue line is the very first setup and was a worn out TD06H with proper external gate housing. This has the larger turbine wheel than the SL2 but also had the proper Trust 3 bolt external gate housing. The dyno was showing this having full boost over 20psi not much after 3000rpm and was also on a completly stock engine >_

 

 

 

It is worth noting the red line was done by an engine later found to have a static compression of 110psi dry (150psi wet) and a leak down result of 55% leak. These need to be considered. Also the second dyno results are on a very conservative dyno. That is why I am saying I think the 262hp is closer to 220kW.

 

I am just in the process of building up a new engine and will post a dyno sheet of it soon (aiming for a supersprint on Jan 22!)

 

Specs of the new unit:

 

87mm CP Pistons

Manely Rods

Head and Block Skimmed

Cosworth Headgasket

ARP bolts / studs throughout

HKS 264 / 272 cams (In / Ex)

eBay Manifold and MVR Wastegate setup

custom dump into 3" straight exhaust

TD06SL2 with ext. 8cm housing (T2 inlet to 3 bolt outlet)

 

I have also sold the Vi-Pec plugin ecu and will now be running a full wire-in DTA S60 Pro and also have an ID1000 fuel setup to match the Surge and 044 fuel pump already on the car. Hoping to crack the 250 mark as that will be about all I can really put down.

 

And here are some videos.

 

The Car at Wakefield in 200kw, laggy 18psi internal gate mode, yet did a 1:08.8 without much effort:

 

 

Eastern Creek in the wet with the external gate and about 220kW

 

 

LoL. Missed some vital info.

 

What engine and turbo are you using there?

Edited by Vodkashot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

realy.........had to quote the whole thing again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^ good find. Thread should be cleaned up as their is some good information on here. I'll be testing the TD06 SL2 20g on e85 soon. Will post up my results.
8cm or 10cm? Internal or External gate?

 

10cm External

 

Yep, same here. Should go alright

 

 

LoL. Missed some vital info.

 

What engine and turbo are you using there?

 

Edit your quotes!

Edited by Rifleman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LoL. Missed some vital info.

 

What engine and turbo are you using there?

 

I didn't realise it was so hard to figure out...given we are talking about TD06SL2's and SR20's.....have editted post should be crystal clear now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LoL. Missed some vital info.

 

What engine and turbo are you using there?

 

I didn't realise it was so hard to figure out...given we are talking about TD06SL2's and SR20's.....have editted post should be crystal clear now.

 

Aye. Sorry about that.

 

Was just abit confusing, Being in a AE86.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye. Sorry about that.

 

Was just abit confusing, Being in a AE86.

 

It's a BMW 3 Series :woot: Was pretty funny eating up evo's and the like

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye. Sorry about that.

 

Was just abit confusing, Being in a AE86.

 

It's a BMW 3 Series :woot: Was pretty funny eating up evo's and the like

 

I just got owned and will shut up now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright boys, so my t28 is making a loud whining noise under full boost, so iv jumped in and purchased at td05-20g.. will be here in a week or so, im just wondering what the consensus was regarding the boost leak issue was in regards to the wastegate?? if im only planning on running a safe 1 bar or whatever, should i worry about dremeling out the wastegate hole? obviously i dont want to f*ck around with it if i dont have to..

 

Also, running it in? just baby it around for a week or so and keep it off boost?? what has everyone else done??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im gunna port my wastegate flap, ill let ya know how it goes.

and turbos dont need to be run in. Once they got oil in them, They good to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

loud whining noise may be just the gasket, common problem lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

skarkey - changed it bro.. Twice.. And everything else you could possibly imagine that is around that area.. All vac lines, cooler pipes, clamps, joiners, all the gaskets, all changed in the hope it wasnt the turbo giving out.. It just continued to make that noise no matter what, so i got the next cheapest thing on the list of things to replace.. A 750 dollar turbo.. Hahahaha

 

hopefully this makes the whining go away, otherwise i'm going to be mighty confused.. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and cheers jonesi - jump in here and let me know how you go.. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

skarkey - changed it bro.. Twice.. And everything else you could possibly imagine that is around that area.. All vac lines, cooler pipes, clamps, joiners, all the gaskets, all changed in the hope it wasnt the turbo giving out.. It just continued to make that noise no matter what, so i got the next cheapest thing on the list of things to replace.. A 750 dollar turbo.. Hahahaha

 

hopefully this makes the whining go away, otherwise i'm going to be mighty confused.. wink.png

 

keen to see ur results and if it was ur turbo making the whining sound. how old was ur t28?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

skarkey - changed it bro.. Twice.. And everything else you could possibly imagine that is around that area.. All vac lines, cooler pipes, clamps, joiners, all the gaskets, all changed in the hope it wasnt the turbo giving out.. It just continued to make that noise no matter what, so i got the next cheapest thing on the list of things to replace.. A 750 dollar turbo.. Hahahaha

 

hopefully this makes the whining go away, otherwise i'm going to be mighty confused.. ;)

 

keen to see ur results and if it was ur turbo making the whining sound. how old was ur t28?

 

'apparently' only like 60 000 k's old.. who knows the life it lived before it was on my car.. i never boosted it too high either, only on one bar its whole life with me.. i do track my car though, so maybe i just thrashed the sh*t out of it.. who knows.. it started making the whining noise about 3 months after owning it.. it still builds boost fine, holds boost fine, just makes a noise like r2-d2 getting electrified as its building up.. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

has anybody had a problem with the orientation of the core on there cars? i got a td05 18g and the core is sitting too far anti-clockwise. (oil feed is pointing to the block insteaad of up and down.)

 

thinking about popping the circlip and loosining the v-band and just adjusting it.. but was just looking to see if anybody else had to do this?

 

its on a s13 redtop sr20det, stock manifold. also hits the engine mount a little, but will give it a grind.

 

cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so regarding boost controll issues.

I just removed the rear housing and messured the wastegate port, and Flap.

Port is 24mm

Flap is 33mm

 

So I dont see why we cant port the housing at least a few mm.

I need a new dremel, So gunna give it a crack this week sometime.

Will keep posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so regarding boost controll issues.

I just removed the rear housing and messured the wastegate port, and Flap.

Port is 24mm

Flap is 33mm

 

So I dont see why we cant port the housing at least a few mm.

I need a new dremel, So gunna give it a crack this week sometime.

Will keep posted.

 

cheers dude.. glad your the guinea pig and not me.. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ported the crap out of mine with a die grinder. It definitely made an improvement. If anyone wants to buy one rather than doing it themselves, I have a TD06SL2-20G with ported Nissan housing. The bearings are buggered (spun big end lost oil pressure on circuit etc) and the compressor talked to the front cover. PM Regarding this if interested, will be cheap.

 

I have had to clock both the kando turbos I have bought. The first turbo actually had a peg in the cartidge to stop the rear housing from rotating. I removed the V-band completely, lifted off the housing and removed the pin. It's nothing hard, you just have to be careful not to damage the wheel getting housing on and off. My second kando (replacing the buggered one already mentioned) is an external gate one and had no locating pin. Loosen the v-band, remove circlip from front cover and rotate covers to suit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lesson here is buy the external wastegate version straight up, wish i did, im not even sure my wastgate actuator is opening...turbo definately has potential though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea, i ended up pulling it apart and found the same thing, little pin in the rear housing and a larger stainless pin in the compressor housing.

 

just cut a slot in the compressor pin with a 1mm cutting disk and levered it out with a screw driver, and the exaust pin fell out pretty much. now its all lined up perfect.

 

but because im paranoid and have to travel close to 6 hours to get my car tuned, i am pulling it all back off to fit a garrett actuator and port out the flapper hole. my knuckles are killing me <_>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had no boost control issues when it was in my car held rock solid till redline and fitted without rotating it

Ive bought another td05h18g new will see what it makes on 22psi and e85 should be done in a month

yea, i ended up pulling it apart and found the same thing, little pin in the rear housing and a larger stainless pin in the compressor housing.

 

just cut a slot in the compressor pin with a 1mm cutting disk and levered it out with a screw driver, and the exaust pin fell out pretty much. now its all lined up perfect.

 

but because im paranoid and have to travel close to 6 hours to get my car tuned, i am pulling it all back off to fit a garrett actuator and port out the flapper hole. my knuckles are killing me <_>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have ported the wastegate hole to 30mm and the flap on mine is 34mm (TD06sl20) i will get it tuned in the next week. Just a note make sure you put some tension on the actuator arm. out of the box it was a little loose, and is there is no tension you are adding lag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

has anyone who's bought a kinugawa turbo emailed r spoken to the people making them and told them of the problems? If so, what is their replies? Are they going to try to rectify these small issues?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

has anyone who's bought a kinugawa turbo emailed r spoken to the people making them and told them of the problems? If so, what is their replies? Are they going to try to rectify these small issues?

 

My actuator was leaking. Eiji sent me a new one.

 

On his Fb it looks like they are developing a new adjustable gate, Looks the bits! I will more than likely get one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i know you said you didnt, and i gathered you had it fitted as it was. i just wanted to make sure i do it 100% right, as if something is wrong, i waste a trip for nothing, and its a long drive for me for racing or tuning.

i want to change the actuator over because i have a 18psi garrett one here, and i hate bleed valves or electric controllers, otherwise i would leave it.

mainly just preventitive things.

 

I had no boost control issues when it was in my car held rock solid till redline and fitted without rotating it

Ive bought another td05h18g new will see what it makes on 22psi and e85 should be done in a month

yea, i ended up pulling it apart and found the same thing, little pin in the rear housing and a larger stainless pin in the compressor housing.

 

just cut a slot in the compressor pin with a 1mm cutting disk and levered it out with a screw driver, and the exaust pin fell out pretty much. now its all lined up perfect.

 

but because im paranoid and have to travel close to 6 hours to get my car tuned, i am pulling it all back off to fit a garrett actuator and port out the flapper hole. my knuckles are killing me dry.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can you just swap actuators over like that?? say the t28 one that is here would it be able to go onto the kinugawa so it only ran 7psi or are they different sizes? i guess i'll find out when mine comes this week :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×