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Time attack peeps - Let's talk Tyres

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Alright guys, so after another track day iv worked out that i just can't go any faster on street tyres, as its just not providing the amount of grip i need to go fast.. A mate of mine that is running R888's was at the same day as me, and even though it was his first time out, he ended up going 2.5 seconds faster than me and after comparing the onboard video's it was plain to see that there was a few places where he was able to carry far more speed through the corner than me and that was where i was losing time..

 

So, for those of you out there that take the time attack thing a bit more serious than your average joe, what tyres are you running, what have you used in the past, and what do you think of them..

 

Right now im tossing up between R888's, or Kumho V710's. I was originally going to go with RSR's and street them as well, but i have decided i will just buy a second set of rims and have a full time set of semi's that i only whack on for track days..

 

So yeah, let me know what you've used, what you currently use, and what your recommendations are.. :)

 

Cheers boys :beer:

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I've been looking at getting into time attack and will also start competing in the Victorian Hill Climb Championship once my engine has been rebuilt (again) so I've spent a lot of time checking out tyres... I'm willing to give a set of Hankook Ventus Z214s a try. Practically a full slick but classed as a semi, street legal (though trying to convince a cop may be tricky) and are on the list of CAMS approved tyres. They mostly come in soft and medium compounds and seem to be pretty good bang for buck,

In saying that they'd be useless in the wet. Heh

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Ventus+Z214

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was the Turbo Blue Datsun 240 there?

 

I was speaking to him end of last year and I think the Marque motorsports club have a restriction on what tyres they let you run ( im stretching my memory so could very well be wrong )

 

anyway the topic of tyres came up and he mentioned the ones he has on his car had led him to a victory in class and that they were two years old.

 

The R888's look like a decent set for sprints though, considering most of your times are in the 40 sec range they should hold up well

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Do you want 1 day or 10 days out of a set of tyres?

 

If you want a reasonable life then avoid anything that is soft or med rated.

 

They're getting old now but i still like re55's. I can run them into the ground and they still provide pretty good levels of grip well below the markers. I got over 10 days out of my last set and my wakefield pb was in the last session of the last full day i ran them.

 

I don't like r888's. The level of grip isn't there and they overheat pretty easily. For 3 lap sprints they might be ok for you as they get up to temp pretty quick. If you find some cheap, check the manufacture date and the compound before commiting. A lot of old med compound 888's get parallel imported on the cheap, or used to anyway.

 

And don't even consider A048's.

 

I have no personal experience with any others.

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perfect timing for this thread im saving up for tyres at the moment

i dont really care how long they last as long as i can get power to the ground

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you are looking at older tyre tech and your better choices are either the AO50's or Hankook Z221, most if not all time attack cars would be running either of these.

Mediums in the AO50's i have found to last a while however the faster you go and the more lateral force you put on the tyre i find they wear quicker, the same goes for a heaver car vs a lighter car.

If you want the quickest set then go for a soft compound in either of these tires as they can see very high g force similar to soft compound slicks.

Edited by Boxheadmr

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I've been looking at getting into time attack and will also start competing in the Victorian Hill Climb Championship once my engine has been rebuilt (again) so I've spent a lot of time checking out tyres... I'm willing to give a set of Hankook Ventus Z214s a try. Practically a full slick but classed as a semi, street legal (though trying to convince a cop may be tricky) and are on the list of CAMS approved tyres. They mostly come in soft and medium compounds and seem to be pretty good bang for buck,

In saying that they'd be useless in the wet. Heh

 

http://www.tirerack....del=Ventus+Z214

 

I'v been on tire rack before, but i can't work out how to get a postage quote to us in Australia, do i have to email them or something??

 

was the Turbo Blue Datsun 240 there?

 

I was speaking to him end of last year and I think the Marque motorsports club have a restriction on what tyres they let you run ( im stretching my memory so could very well be wrong )

 

anyway the topic of tyres came up and he mentioned the ones he has on his car had led him to a victory in class and that they were two years old.

 

The R888's look like a decent set for sprints though, considering most of your times are in the 40 sec range they should hold up well

 

Yeah, the rules state they have to be street legal tyres so as long as they are DOT approved or whatever it is, they are fine.. yeah, R888's are quite popular out there..

 

Do you want 1 day or 10 days out of a set of tyres?

 

If you want a reasonable life then avoid anything that is soft or med rated.

 

They're getting old now but i still like re55's. I can run them into the ground and they still provide pretty good levels of grip well below the markers. I got over 10 days out of my last set and my wakefield pb was in the last session of the last full day i ran them.

 

I don't like r888's. The level of grip isn't there and they overheat pretty easily. For 3 lap sprints they might be ok for you as they get up to temp pretty quick. If you find some cheap, check the manufacture date and the compound before commiting. A lot of old med compound 888's get parallel imported on the cheap, or used to anyway.

 

And don't even consider A048's.

 

I have no personal experience with any others.

 

Well our season is only 7 rounds, with each round being 5 x 4 lap runs, and each lap is 45ish seconds.. so technically the tyres need to get be able to get up to temp quickly, as there is only 3 laps after the warm up lap when you can post a decent time..

 

perfect timing for this thread im saving up for tyres at the moment

i dont really care how long they last as long as i can get power to the ground

 

Yeah im the same, i just need to be able to carry speed through the corners.. On the weekend all i was doing was battling the car the entire time..

 

you are looking at older tyre tech and your better choices are either the AO50's or Hankook Z221, most if not all time attack cars would be running either of these.

Mediums in the AO50's i have found to last a while however the faster you go and the more lateral force you put on the tyre i find they wear quicker, the same goes for a heaver car vs a lighter car.

If you want the quickest set then go for a soft compound in either of these tires as they can see very high g force similar to soft compound slicks.

 

as said above, our season is 7 rounds and each round is 5 x 4 lap sessions, so i assume compared to some events that would be alot more forgiving on tyres.. As long as they can last half the season i would be fine with that, will be interesting to see how my mates 888's go after a few rounds..

 

Cheers boys, keep the options coming!!!

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I've been looking at getting into time attack and will also start competing in the Victorian Hill Climb Championship once my engine has been rebuilt (again) so I've spent a lot of time checking out tyres... I'm willing to give a set of Hankook Ventus Z214s a try. Practically a full slick but classed as a semi, street legal (though trying to convince a cop may be tricky) and are on the list of CAMS approved tyres. They mostly come in soft and medium compounds and seem to be pretty good bang for buck,

In saying that they'd be useless in the wet. Heh

 

http://www.tirerack....del=Ventus+Z214

 

I'v been on tire rack before, but i can't work out how to get a postage quote to us in Australia, do i have to email them or something??

 

Yeah, just shoot them an email... They're pretty prompt with their replies too. I would assume they get a lot of enquiries from Australia.

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I've been looking at getting into time attack and will also start competing in the Victorian Hill Climb Championship once my engine has been rebuilt (again) so I've spent a lot of time checking out tyres... I'm willing to give a set of Hankook Ventus Z214s a try. Practically a full slick but classed as a semi, street legal (though trying to convince a cop may be tricky) and are on the list of CAMS approved tyres. They mostly come in soft and medium compounds and seem to be pretty good bang for buck,

In saying that they'd be useless in the wet. Heh

 

http://www.tirerack....del=Ventus+Z214

 

I'v been on tire rack before, but i can't work out how to get a postage quote to us in Australia, do i have to email them or something??

 

Yeah, just shoot them an email... They're pretty prompt with their replies too. I would assume they get a lot of enquiries from Australia.

 

sweet as, i might swing them one right now..

cheers dude :)

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r888's seem to be slower then the newer tires in the same compound by about 1-2seconds but this is suggestive, when changing from R888's to RE55's i saw about a 1 second difference in times around wakefield and better wear rates from the RE55's over the R888's (same compound). AO50's were another second or so but more development in my car, general feedback from others suggest similar changes in times between the tires.

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RSR's are not a real semi, don't expect miracle budget circuit tires, I had used them before after my first set of RE55's and didn't like them at all, its the only "semi slick" tire that overheated on me. You can tell when its a real semi slick just by looking at their wear rating, 100 or below are semis, 120 and 140 are not. But as you wrote, Federal RSR's make great street tires, not too expensive, not too soft of a semi either and better than RE001.

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I've been looking at getting into time attack and will also start competing in the Victorian Hill Climb Championship once my engine has been rebuilt (again) so I've spent a lot of time checking out tyres... I'm willing to give a set of Hankook Ventus Z214s a try. Practically a full slick but classed as a semi, street legal (though trying to convince a cop may be tricky) and are on the list of CAMS approved tyres. They mostly come in soft and medium compounds and seem to be pretty good bang for buck, http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Ventus+Z214

 

Please be aware that the Hankook Z214 are not road legal. DOT being for Department of Transport is a USA standard but this does not give it road legal status in Australia. Same goes with Kumho V710, check these out they are same style as Hankook Z214.

If you drive these on the street, the cops will jump all over you and end up in trouble.

 

On the track these style of tyres are awesome and perfectly suited to hillclimbs, motokhana's and sprints. Just be sure to check your class rules on tyres as running these "grooved slicks" will normally put you in another class with cars running slicks.

 

I ran Kumho V710 for 9 Supersprint events last year and they were brilliant, Quick to warm up, excellent grip and great wear rate.

Awesome value for money as a set only costs approx $1300. Sometimes cheaper if on sale from Kumho dealers.

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Please be aware that the Hankook Z214 are not road legal. DOT being for Department of Transport is a USA standard but this does not give it road legal status in Australia. Same goes with Kumho V710, check these out they are same style as Hankook Z214.

If you drive these on the street, the cops will jump all over you and end up in trouble.

 

Thanks for that... I was under the impression that they were.

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I've been looking at getting into time attack and will also start competing in the Victorian Hill Climb Championship once my engine has been rebuilt (again) so I've spent a lot of time checking out tyres... I'm willing to give a set of Hankook Ventus Z214s a try. Practically a full slick but classed as a semi, street legal (though trying to convince a cop may be tricky) and are on the list of CAMS approved tyres. They mostly come in soft and medium compounds and seem to be pretty good bang for buck,

In saying that they'd be useless in the wet. Heh

 

http://www.tirerack....del=Ventus+Z214

 

I'v been on tire rack before, but i can't work out how to get a postage quote to us in Australia, do i have to email them or something??

 

Yeah, just shoot them an email... They're pretty prompt with their replies too. I would assume they get a lot of enquiries from Australia.

 

sweet as, i might swing them one right now..

cheers dude :)

 

Bought a set of goodyears assymetric 2 tyres of tirerack 2 months ago, can't be any happier with their service. I've emailed Marshall Wisler - marshall@tirerack.com

Tyres got delivered to door in about 5 days. They don't accept Paypal or credit card, you have to do a wire transfer from your bank.

 

I've been looking at getting into time attack and will also start competing in the Victorian Hill Climb Championship once my engine has been rebuilt (again) so I've spent a lot of time checking out tyres... I'm willing to give a set of Hankook Ventus Z214s a try. Practically a full slick but classed as a semi, street legal (though trying to convince a cop may be tricky) and are on the list of CAMS approved tyres. They mostly come in soft and medium compounds and seem to be pretty good bang for buck, http://www.tirerack....del=Ventus+Z214

 

Please be aware that the Hankook Z214 are not road legal. DOT being for Department of Transport is a USA standard but this does not give it road legal status in Australia. Same goes with Kumho V710, check these out they are same style as Hankook Z214.

If you drive these on the street, the cops will jump all over you and end up in trouble.

 

On the track these style of tyres are awesome and perfectly suited to hillclimbs, motokhana's and sprints. Just be sure to check your class rules on tyres as running these "grooved slicks" will normally put you in another class with cars running slicks.

 

I ran Kumho V710 for 9 Supersprint events last year and they were brilliant, Quick to warm up, excellent grip and great wear rate.

Awesome value for money as a set only costs approx $1300. Sometimes cheaper if on sale from Kumho dealers.

 

AFAIK, correct me if im wrong, you can use any tyre in Australia and comply with the ADR requirements provided that they comply with the 'DOT' (USA), 'E' (European) and JIS (Japanese).

 

Australia does have not their own standard, refer to ADR 23/00

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AFAIK, correct me if im wrong, you can use any tyre in Australia and comply with the ADR requirements provided that they comply with the 'DOT' (USA), 'E' (European) and JIS (Japanese).

 

Australia does have not their own standard, refer to ADR 23/00

 

I don't think you have seen the tyres we are refering to here ie the Kumko Z214 and Hankook V710, they maybe DOT rated but it would be difficult to argue how legal they are on our road.

 

From my experience the V710 is not a lot quicker than the RE55s SR2, certainly slight improvment but not by a huge margain. I would argue the V710 /. Z214 is on par with the A050 in medium maybe a little slower than the A050 / Z221 in soft compound. At least for the V710 in medium the rubber seems to be harder than the RE55s in SR2 and handle heat better.

Edited by WOY

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AFAIK, correct me if im wrong, you can use any tyre in Australia and comply with the ADR requirements provided that they comply with the 'DOT' (USA), 'E' (European) and JIS (Japanese).

 

Australia does have not their own standard, refer to ADR 23/00

 

I don't think you have seen the tyres we are refering to here ie the Kumko Z214 and Hankook V710, they maybe DOT rated but it would be difficult to argue how legal they are on our road.

 

 

FYI I have seen both, you mean the kumho v710 and hankook z214. Both tyres as stated from tirerack are TRACK and COMPETITION DOT meaning that are are not legal to run the on roads and it would be silly to run them due to their low treadwear rating.

 

Proof from the manufacturer:

 

To be legal for use on public roads Australia, passenger car tyres must comply with at least one of the following standards:

1. U.S.A. - indicated by "DOT" marking,

2. European - indicated by "E" marking, or

3. Japanese Industry - indicated by "JIS" marking.

Some tyres have all three of the markings mentioned above. To be legal for use on public roads Australia, tyres need to have at least one of these markings. Therefore, tyres can be legal for use on public roads in Australia and not have "DOT" markings.

 

The legality issues with the tyre / wheel combination you purchase in the US will relate to the vehicle you intend to fit them to. You will need to ensure that the wheel / tyre combination you purchase meets the regulations for alternative tyres & wheels applicable to your state or territory. There is a list of these on the Toyo website in the Technical Bulletins section. One regulation that applies in all states relates to the minimum load index. The load index on the tyres you intend to fit to your vehicle must have at least the minimum load index stated on the tyre placard affixed to your vehicle.

 

Regards,

 

Stephen Burke,

Tyre Technical Officer,

Motor Sport Liaison Officer,

Toyo Tyre & Rubber Australia Limited.

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I wouldnt go near the R888, they just arent very good.

 

As boxhead said the A050 and the hankooks are the top of the pops at the minute.

 

But i also agree with BHDave with regards to the RE55's. I did 10 events on my set and they still had life left and were still posting quick times .

 

Cant comment on the Kumhos from personal experience but mark seems to be getting good times and life out of them.

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Agree the Yokohama AO50's and Hankook Z221's are very good. Just have alook at what all the top guys at WTAC are running. AO50's and Z221's everywhere. They are very fast for a semi-slick. I would say even quicker than a full slick for sprint/short lap competitions.

If you can afford approx $550 per tyre you can acheive excellent lap times.

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hhhm, some pretty interesting points of view in here..

 

i was not aware that the v710's were not road legal, but i will have a spare set of rims with tyres that i will be throwing on to use when the car is a daily..

 

luckily i have a 180 with no interior so SHOULD be able to drive out to the track with the rims in the boot, and just throw them on once im out there..

 

looks like i'll be going the V710's, as they look like they could be mighty fast, and they are currently 270 each from a place in brissy, about to give him a call now and find out how many he has left and whether i need to be ordering them now :P

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RE11S is the new tyre from Bridgestone to replace the venerable RE55S. In a medium compound it's more "time attack" orientated but it's not an all-out one lap super soft wonder like the others. A customer was 3 wheelin it at Eastern Creek on these tyres lol

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you got any sweet deals going Alpha on semis?? pm me if you want, im chasing 225/45/17 or somewhere around there..

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We don't have anything that's cheaper than those Kumho's, we have faster but not cheaper. Kumho is a good starting point for your situation so we wouldn't recommend you step up to dunlop/yoko/bridgies until later when you want to go faster, but maybe think about V700/V70a for your first semislick cos those V710's is almost like a slick and a slick is less forgiving.

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yeha, i had a few others say that, so i picked up those semi's that were in the classified section, the toyo Ra1 semi's.. got them for cheap so i figured they were a good starting point, 450 delivered for the four and 2 of them have only had like 100k's put on them.. i'll put a decent heat cycle into them before i take them to the track, but as you said, they should be a bit more forgiving for my first set of semi's..

 

Thanks for the advice though bro ;)

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Currently using Federal FZ-201 and they seem to work well, hillclimb best tyre so far RE55s WT compound which is for wet or arctic conditions, i had some on my car and they were good, lent them to a mate to do rally calder and he won the motorkhana and he did a 22.37 at rob roy on the weekend in greasy conditions, his evo was 3 fastest outright even with all the open wheelers there, problem is the WT is not available anymore but for hillclimbs it the softest tyre and works well if you can get your hands on some for hillclimb well worth it.

Edited by Lgee

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Currently using Federal FZ-201 and they seem to work well, hillclimb best tyre so far RE55s WT compound which is for wet or arctic conditions, i had some on my car and they were good, lent them to a mate to do rally calder and he won the motorkhana and he did a 22.37 at rob roy on the weekend in greasy conditions, his evo was 3 fastest outright even with all the open wheelers there, problem is the WT is not available anymore but for hillclimbs it the softest tyre and works well if you can get your hands on some for hillclimb well worth it.

 

Is your mate in the VHCC? My mate Adam drives a Lotus Elise in it.

Edited by ZeroFallen

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I compete in the VHCC as well, i have seen the Elise a few times its a quick car, it is the blue evo5 lancer driven by Luke Green, 2011 and soon to be 2012 AWD class victorian champion

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Nice nice... I was looking at entering the S13 this year, but the motor is getting a rebuild at the moment... I'm hoping I can make it to the Ararat round though and run in the Z class.

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Well it would be good to see some more nissans there, if you go dont be a stranger come and say hello.

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I'll make sure I do. :)

Would really prefer new tyres before I enter though, but that might have to wait a bit. Try to get the current ones sticky... Soak them in diesel? :lol:

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