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Labor moving to sneak through data retention, web snooping, ACTA and filter.

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Just to keep everyone in the loop, over the past few days the government has started making some moves to sneak in some rather nasty pieces of legislation while it thinks the Australian public is not paying attention or lost interest.

 

This include increasing snooping powers for police and asio, data retention, ACTA, making it illegal to refuse to decrypt data when requested as well as the new recommendations for isp level web filtering, correction: censorship.

 

some light reading if you want to no more:

http://www.zdnet.com..._30032012_fea_3

http://www.itnews.co...mendations.aspx

http://www.itnews.co...-retention.aspx

http://delimiter.com...illance-powers/

http://www.itnews.co...-misplaced.aspx

http://delimiter.com...-participation/

http://delimiter.com...llance-upgrade/

http://news.smh.com....0504-1y419.html

http://www.theage.co...0508-1y9vr.html

 

anyways, spread the word and let people know whats going on

 

"We should never underestimate the federal government's insatiable desire to control the internet,"

 

~ Ron Paul...

 

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First American, now the Australian Labor party too?

 

It pains me to say this, but I may have to vote for liberal next election. :/

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First American, now the Australian Labor party too?

 

It pains me to say this, but I may have to vote for liberal next election. :/

 

The only problem with that is with Abbott and his cronies expecting a landslide win, they've been secretly gearing up for workchoices 2.0...

 

There have been a couple of stories over the past few months where various liberal ministers have been carrying on with crap like how the minimum wage is unfair to the unemployed and deceasing there chances of finding work (reading between the lines, they want to scrap the minimum wage) or things like how reducing the minimum number of hours an employer can have someone work a shift down to 90 minutes because they claim it will benefit students and increase productivity.

 

bottom line, where gunna get fvcked over royally no matter who wins...

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First American, now the Australian Labor party too?

 

It pains me to say this, but I may have to vote for liberal next election. :/

 

The only problem with that is with Abbott and his cronies expecting a landslide win, they've been secretly gearing up for workchoices 2.0...

 

There have been a couple of stories over the past few months where various liberal ministers have been carrying on with crap like how the minimum wage is unfair to the unemployed and deceasing there chances of finding work (reading between the lines, they want to scrap the minimum wage) or things like how reducing the minimum number of hours an employer can have someone work a shift down to 90 minutes because they claim it will benefit students and increase productivity.

 

bottom line, where gunna get fvcked over royally no matter who wins...

 

 

...sigh

 

Ron Paul should run Australia if he can't get into house in America.

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There have been a couple of stories over the past few months where various liberal ministers have been carrying on with crap like how the minimum wage is unfair to the unemployed and deceasing there chances of finding work (reading between the lines, they want to scrap the minimum wage) or things like how reducing the minimum number of hours an employer can have someone work a shift down to 90 minutes because they claim it will benefit students and increase productivity.

 

bottom line, where gunna get fvcked over royally no matter who wins...

 

Actually, my niece lost her after-school job because they increased the minimum length of a shift to 4 hours, She was doing 3:30pm - 5:30pm at the cheesecake factory and was no longer able to do the shifts due o the law change. Most school kids can't do a minimum 4 hour shift after school.

 

And - I'm all for scrapping minimal wage, it gives *skilled* workers the chance to negotiate a wage that more suitable for their skill set, I fully agreed with the Work Place Agreements too, for anyone that's put in the effort to get experience it gives them the chance to get a higher wage.

 

Our whole employment system in Australia is flawed.

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Labour cannot sneak through ACTA, mainly due to the fact that we signed it last October. No country has ratified the framework yet, and won't until they've seen it work in other countries. Its the same as every UN programme and policy and the same things they do in the EU. Labour has not tried to sneak through any policies, framework, legislation or laws; and it says specifically in all of those articles. They are thinking about it and are consulting.

 

Under law they cannot force ISPs to decrypt data on the line, checkout the Communications Inteception ACT, this will never happen. Data retention will also never happen as no ISP could afford to store 2 years worth of even the most basic records of their customers internet usage, and I doubt that the Government would foot the Bill. On top of that, ASIO/Police would also need that infrastructure for investigations and the software to sort through the data which they dont have and wont get money for. But that said, even thinking about asking ISPs for data retention is such a stupid idea in itself.

 

It should be illegal to refuse to provide the key to encrypted information should a warrant be given to the authorities. The authorities must obtain a warrant to collect the information in the first place, and refusing to decrypt it should be illegal. A quick example would be if the AFP with the ATO applied for a warrant to obtain information from a household from someone who is suspected of avoiding tax. The Police go in and seize computers etc. The person in question has an encypted database on their computer, which contains their accounts information, which the Police/ATO have a legal right to get to from their warrant. The person refuses to hand over the keys, which means they are impeding a police investigation. I dont see how this wouldn't be a crime? It would be exactly the same as refusing police access to a safe or a vault, which is currently illegal.

 

Web filtering is silly and we all know it, I wish they would jump off that bandwagon, this isn't Iran or China. Not to mention that the solution is inept, easy to get around and will not work.

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The person refuses to hand over the keys, which means they are impeding a police investigation. I dont see how this wouldn't be a crime? It would be exactly the same as refusing police access to a safe or a vault, which is currently illegal.

 

Encryption keys have no physical evidence, so if the person "forgets" the key, there is no way to prove they are impeding a police investigation.

 

Or, for example, the keys are stored on a USB stick which gets destroyed or lost.

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First American, now the Australian Labor party too?

 

It pains me to say this, but I may have to vote for liberal next election. :/

 

Liberal Democratic Party or the Sex Party.

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The person refuses to hand over the keys, which means they are impeding a police investigation. I dont see how this wouldn't be a crime? It would be exactly the same as refusing police access to a safe or a vault, which is currently illegal.

 

Encryption keys have no physical evidence, so if the person "forgets" the key, there is no way to prove they are impeding a police investigation.

 

Or, for example, the keys are stored on a USB stick which gets destroyed or lost.

 

I agree with that example, but they currently have no way to convict or imprison people who will not give up keys. If you have an encrypted database that you use regularly, that you decrypt with a cert or password, "forgetting/loosing" this access isn't going to hold up in a court of law as if the database is so important and used by you, you'd have to be retarded to "forget/loose" access to it. I agree with the law, and the fact that it is subjective to a judge or jury makes me happy that it shouldn't get used illegally or to remove someones human rights if they have legitimately lost access.

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...

 

Under law they cannot force ISPs to decrypt data on the line, checkout the Communications Inteception ACT, this will never happen. Data retention will also never happen as no ISP could afford to store 2 years worth of even the most basic records of their customers internet usage, and I doubt that the Government would foot the Bill. On top of that, ASIO/Police would also need that infrastructure for investigations and the software to sort through the data which they dont have and wont get money for. But that said, even thinking about asking ISPs for data retention is such a stupid idea in itself.

 

...

 

ISP's can't just decrypt all data on the fly any way. While man in the middle attacks on protocols such as https through firewall/router appliances are especially easy for ISP's to setup (i.e. mandatory filtering style systems), there are plenty of encryption+authentication protocols out there that could not be easily decrypted. This part of the legislation is meant to target people who have for example an encrypted archive or HDD that ASIO or the police want to look into. Refusing to decrypt said data is what they want to avoid, as it isn't really illegal to do so at the moment.

 

This has some advantages and some disadvantages. I.e. A child porn watching scumbag may encrypt his files in an encrypted archive making it harder for additional evidence to be gathered. Making it a crime to refuse to decrypt said archive would mean at the very least said scumbag gets charged with something on top of whatever else they have.

 

On the downside I have encrypted archives on my portable drives and computer that I obviously don't want people to access that contain data of a business nature. Having to decrypt them at someone's request without really good reason would peeve me no end, not to mention the obvious violation of something I clearly consider especially private!

 

There's also interesting implications for government workers who may have confidential, restricted, or higher data in their possession which is encrytped while being in plain clothes or off duty (such as at airports, etc...). Will these people be charged when they tell someone who shouldn't be looking at this data to politely f**k right off?

Edited by Lucius

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Labour cannot sneak through ACTA, mainly due to the fact that we signed it last October. No country has ratified the framework yet, and won't until they've seen it work in other countries. Its the same as every UN programme and policy and the same things they do in the EU. Labour has not tried to sneak through any policies, framework, legislation or laws; and it says specifically in all of those articles. They are thinking about it and are consulting.

 

Under law they cannot force ISPs to decrypt data on the line, checkout the Communications Inteception ACT, this will never happen. Data retention will also never happen as no ISP could afford to store 2 years worth of even the most basic records of their customers internet usage, and I doubt that the Government would foot the Bill. On top of that, ASIO/Police would also need that infrastructure for investigations and the software to sort through the data which they dont have and wont get money for. But that said, even thinking about asking ISPs for data retention is such a stupid idea in itself.

 

It should be illegal to refuse to provide the key to encrypted information should a warrant be given to the authorities. The authorities must obtain a warrant to collect the information in the first place, and refusing to decrypt it should be illegal. A quick example would be if the AFP with the ATO applied for a warrant to obtain information from a household from someone who is suspected of avoiding tax. The Police go in and seize computers etc. The person in question has an encypted database on their computer, which contains their accounts information, which the Police/ATO have a legal right to get to from their warrant. The person refuses to hand over the keys, which means they are impeding a police investigation. I dont see how this wouldn't be a crime? It would be exactly the same as refusing police access to a safe or a vault, which is currently illegal.

 

Web filtering is silly and we all know it, I wish they would jump off that bandwagon, this isn't Iran or China. Not to mention that the solution is inept, easy to get around and will not work.

 

tumblr_m2yh8qtntG1r0kgheo2_500.jpg ...K.O.S for PM

Edited by GHOSTY

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There have been a couple of stories over the past few months where various liberal ministers have been carrying on with crap like how the minimum wage is unfair to the unemployed and deceasing there chances of finding work (reading between the lines, they want to scrap the minimum wage) or things like how reducing the minimum number of hours an employer can have someone work a shift down to 90 minutes because they claim it will benefit students and increase productivity.

 

bottom line, where gunna get fvcked over royally no matter who wins...

 

Actually, my niece lost her after-school job because they increased the minimum length of a shift to 4 hours, She was doing 3:30pm - 5:30pm at the cheesecake factory and was no longer able to do the shifts due o the law change. Most school kids can't do a minimum 4 hour shift after school.

 

And - I'm all for scrapping minimal wage, it gives *skilled* workers the chance to negotiate a wage that more suitable for their skill set, I fully agreed with the Work Place Agreements too, for anyone that's put in the effort to get experience it gives them the chance to get a higher wage.

 

Our whole employment system in Australia is flawed.

 

agree with this sentiment completely

 

work choices was a good piece of legislation in theory, practicality wise it did not account for business exploiting every knook and cranny to take advantage of the average worker to save them money.. and yes, i have read the 224 page case on workchoices.. not every part.. most of it..

 

IF workchoices 2 as some like to call it, is implemented and drafted CORRECTLY including provisions where businesses cannot just exploit the shit out of workers, and it allocates skilled workers to jobs which they are most efficient in by scrapping the minimum wage, it will be the best piece of employment legislation bar none.. it will increase our gdp overall, stronger dollar etc.

 

it provides an incentive for people who work hard to get the correct pay, the harder you work the bigger the pay check. that should be an incentive for everyone to work hard and there should be no need for a minimum wage, essentially a minimum wage supports lazy slack milkshakes who cannot do 1 + 1

Edited by Legal Attorney

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First American, now the Australian Labor party too?

 

It pains me to say this, but I may have to vote for liberal next election. :/

 

Liberal Democratic Party or the Sex Party.

 

is just a vote for labor if you consider preferences.

 

lib dems are a joke.

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Vote for me!

 

I'll work for Equality, better roads, less harassment for modified car users!

Seriously though. How does one become a politician? I feel as though I could actually make a change that mattered, but I'm sure you've all heard that before.

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First American, now the Australian Labor party too?

 

It pains me to say this, but I may have to vote for liberal next election. :/

 

Liberal Democratic Party or the Sex Party.

 

is just a vote for labor if you consider preferences.

 

lib dems are a joke.

 

There's no one better in my book. Both major parties are a joke, at least voting for minor parties can make a difference. If enough people do and they get some seats they can push their influence. If you don't like the major parties like many people claim, then don't vote for them.

 

There's the issue in politics where the public (especially in the last few elections) have simply voted for the person/party they hate the least out of the two major parties, not the person/party they want running the country.

 

That doesn't make any sense to me, if you want a change, and you don't like the two major parties, vote for a different third party, look up their policies and find out what they stand for. If they get some seats, they can exert their influence.

Edited by bootlegapparel

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There have been a couple of stories over the past few months where various liberal ministers have been carrying on with crap like how the minimum wage is unfair to the unemployed and deceasing there chances of finding work (reading between the lines, they want to scrap the minimum wage) or things like how reducing the minimum number of hours an employer can have someone work a shift down to 90 minutes because they claim it will benefit students and increase productivity.

 

bottom line, where gunna get fvcked over royally no matter who wins...

 

Actually, my niece lost her after-school job because they increased the minimum length of a shift to 4 hours, She was doing 3:30pm - 5:30pm at the cheesecake factory and was no longer able to do the shifts due o the law change. Most school kids can't do a minimum 4 hour shift after school.

 

And - I'm all for scrapping minimal wage, it gives *skilled* workers the chance to negotiate a wage that more suitable for their skill set, I fully agreed with the Work Place Agreements too, for anyone that's put in the effort to get experience it gives them the chance to get a higher wage.

 

Our whole employment system in Australia is flawed.

 

The minimum 4 hour shift does not apply to full time students.

http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/court-dismisses-appeal-against-15hr-shift/story-e6frfkur-1226352860414

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The minimum 4 hour shift does not apply to full time students.

http://www.news.com....r-1226352860414

 

The legislation come in today, my niece already has a new full time job since she finished school last year

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I'm all for scrapping minimal wage

 

I'd be more in favour of reducing the minimum wage. It's far too high. That's the problem, I don't think it should be scrapped, but I think it should be reduced. We're squeezing the middle class by having a far too high minimum wage, there's no incentive for being skilled or having higher education if the minimum wage is too high. It also kills our manufacturing and makes us less competitive with overseas markets.

Edited by bootlegapparel

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I'm all for scrapping minimal wage

 

I'd be more in favour of reducing the minimum wage. It's far too high. That's the problem, I don't think it should be scrapped, but I think it should be reduced. We're squeezing the middle class by having a far too high minimum wage, there's no incentive for being skilled or having higher education if the minimum wage is too high. It also kills our manufacturing and makes us less competitive with overseas markets.

You messed up your quoting brackets, i did not say that :P

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I am sorry but I don't think minimum wage should exist any more. Employment is about a market place now and there is no exploitation as such in my opinion. An employer will put an offer out for a job a $2/h and it should be up to an individual to choose to do that or not. We don't really live in a society where one company controls all the employment in a whole town any more, there are plenty of jobs now where you don't even have to leave your home (design, IT, consulting, telesales, customer service etc).

 

If we maintain our current IR policies we will never be able to compete globably because here there is too much protection for employees which in my opinion promotes laziness and inefficiency. In my business I deal with both Australian and Chinese suppliers, have contractors from the US and EU doing IT work and I'll tell you, Australians are the worst to deal with in terms of customer service, lead time and more. And they're orders of magnitudes more expensive. We complain of jobs going overseas, well its because overseas they so it better, faster and cheaper. With a global economy we cannot afford the protectionistic laws of the paste anymore.

 

Have more to say on this topic but can't be bothered continuing to write on the phone.

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I am sorry but I don't think minimum wage should exist any more. Employment is about a market place now and there is no exploitation as such in my opinion. An employer will put an offer out for a job a $2/h and it should be up to an individual to choose to do that or not. We don't really live in a society where one company controls all the employment in a whole town any more, there are plenty of jobs now where you don't even have to leave your home (design, IT, consulting, telesales, customer service etc).

 

If we maintain our current IR policies we will never be able to compete globably because here there is too much protection for employees which in my opinion promotes laziness and inefficiency. In my business I deal with both Australian and Chinese suppliers, have contractors from the US and EU doing IT work and I'll tell you, Australians are the worst to deal with in terms of customer service, lead time and more. And they're orders of magnitudes more expensive. We complain of jobs going overseas, well its because overseas they so it better, faster and cheaper. With a global economy we cannot afford the protectionistic laws of the paste anymore.

 

Have more to say on this topic but can't be bothered continuing to write on the phone.

i dunno about scrapping the minimum wage completely, but everything from "if we maintain" onwards i'm all for.

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i dunno about scrapping the minimum wage completely, but everything from "if we maintain" onwards i'm all for.

 

Agreed,

 

scrapping minimum wage will do nothing for our skills shortage, may bolster up the unskilled employment rate, but coupled with an aging workforce and a huge skills shortage, it'll hamper Australia's future growth and competitiveness in the long run and create a greater dependency on the state. Restructuring the power of workers' unions rather than ratifying them altogether will be the most beneficial step for our government to take.

 

The problem with Australia in the global market is a tricky thing to fix. The morsel of young skilled workers here are taking flight for better Paying jobs in countries with lower taxes and more affordable living costs. Specialist workers already have the leverage to negotiate better salaries and perks here, the problem is that far too many workers get better offers abroad.

 

Couple this with the fact we're half a world away from any other economic power, makes other countries that much more reluctant to trade with Australia.

 

Let's face it, why would importers in Europe, pay high prices for our inferior non niche goods, when they can get the same shit from a closer neighbor for cheap?

 

So we can kiss our export industry outside of resources and livestock goodbye.

 

 

 

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The problem with the minimum wage at the moment is that you're paying some of the least skilled workers $20 an hour just to sit on their arses and do f**k all.

Compare that to say, a graduate student in America earning $20 an hour after 4 years of university study and a couple years experience.

 

I think the problem is we're trying to make living on the minimum wage "nice". It shouldn't be, being on the minimum wage should suck, so you have motivation to get skilled/further educated.

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The problem with the minimum wage at the moment is that you're paying some of the least skilled workers $20 an hour just to sit on their arses and do f**k all.

Compare that to say, a graduate student in America earning $20 an hour after 4 years of university study and a couple years experience.

 

I think the problem is we're trying to make living on the minimum wage "nice". It shouldn't be, being on the minimum wage should suck, so you have motivation to get skilled/further educated.

 

You make a good point, but A high minimum wage has pushed living costs here too high, sure a college grad in the states gets paid sweet f**k all, but in context to living costs there, workers there have that much more extra income to play with, take rent for example, my 3 bedroom unit in the outskirts of Brissy sets me back 360 a week, that same amount can be used to pay a months rent in a similar house in Chicago.

 

Buying property in the states at the moment is even cheaper, im building a house as I'm finishing uni and a 3 bedroom house is setting me back about 375 gs, my parents bought a house right on lake Michigan near downtown Chicago for 45gs cash. But even at its peak prosperity, living in the states was far cheaper than living in Australia by a huge factor.

 

If anything they should gradually lower it to an appropriate amount..

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i dunno about scrapping the minimum wage completely, but everything from "if we maintain" onwards i'm all for.

 

Agreed,

 

scrapping minimum wage will do nothing for our skills shortage, may bolster up the unskilled employment rate, but coupled with an aging workforce and a huge skills shortage, it'll hamper Australia's future growth and competitiveness in the long run and create a greater dependency on the state. Restructuring the power of workers' unions rather than ratifying them altogether will be the most beneficial step for our government to take.

 

The problem with Australia in the global market is a tricky thing to fix. The morsel of young skilled workers here are taking flight for better Paying jobs in countries with lower taxes and more affordable living costs. Specialist workers already have the leverage to negotiate better salaries and perks here, the problem is that far too many workers get better offers abroad.

 

Couple this with the fact we're half a world away from any other economic power, makes other countries that much more reluctant to trade with Australia.

 

Let's face it, why would importers in Europe, pay high prices for our inferior non niche goods, when they can get the same shit from a closer neighbor for cheap?

 

So we can kiss our export industry outside of resources and livestock goodbye.

 

moronic statement.

 

scrapping the minimum wage will increase our economic stability and strength in the long run along with our competitiveness, removing most of the dependency of workers on the government.

 

scrapping the minimum wage and allocating salaries based on productivity will increase the efficiency of the australian economy. Skilled workers will be exposed to economical correction in the employment market where the jobs they are most suited to and will receive the highest amount of pay in return for high rates effort will be seeked out and consequently applied. Therefore, this results in higher production efficiency in individual firms. Why should someone labouring on a production line pack boxes when they are more skilled at making pizzas, but essentially do not work at a pizza place because of lower pay?

 

Our economy will be stronger and more efficient with a scrapping of the minimum wage, as long as there is careful consideration of its implementation with the ability to scrutinise and hold firms accountable who do not give the correct pay to a worker.. ie based on length of time in industry, further education in field, on job training etc

 

and if we do not fix the skills shortage as a result of this economic implementation, it simply means we are not doing enough at the forefront of those industries ie the training and incentives to learn a skill shortage trade in high school.

 

Furthermore, you state that Australia has high taxes. Generally yes, but when you take into account government measures to spread equity and wealth australia has a tax burden which is very much the same or lower when compared broadly to other economic contries in the developing world. Our tax wedge is lower than the US, UK, spain netherlands etc

 

http://comparativeta...hapter_4-01.asp

 

As for your unions statement that is a joke all together. Unions should exist to represent individual people who have been treated unfairly, ie you believe that your wage is not line with everyone elses when comparing your experience/skills etc. The fact that they argue a minimum wage for everyone as a whole and consequential increases creates social loss where society is worse off for workers and producers. This can be justified as creating a minimum wage in an employment market sets an artificial floor in the economic s+d model whcih prevents prices from decreasing to market equilibrium ie where the market is most efficient at and total consumer and producer surplus is maximised, consequently social surplus/benefit too.

 

What way would you want the unions restructured? I for one, believe they should not collectively take money from people as a whole. Rather, they should exist as a service to employees who have been negligected unfairly by their firms on an individual basis and should receive money from workes who require their services at a reasonable amount for any increase in working conditions that are preferred by the individual.

 

You also state other countries/europe are unwilling to trade with australia for our non-niche goods...

 

there is no need for us to be in industries which are not our primary strength. the car industry is a great example. look at how much it is dying and the federal government and state governments keep propping it up. the continuous measures of tariffs and raising the costs of imports is ludicrous as a local industry protection measure. these protectionist measures mean that we get less quality cars for the same prices. look at how much it is to purchase a bmw or audi in europe when compared to australia.. australia is a lot higher...

 

case and point. the lamborghini aventador has a retail suggested selling price of $350,000 aud when sold in the uk approximately.. in australia... it is sold for $750,000 or whatever sam newman paid for his.

 

also case and point this if you think we do not pay too much.

 

http://www.carsales....ice:Min,Max~0.5

 

2012 bmw steptronic m sport 520 in AUS = $98,990

 

In the UK, the same car will cost you AUD = $45,837 (2x as much here)

 

http://www.autotrade.../1500?logcode=p

 

thats bordering on a new toyota price.

 

We should essentially produce and consequently export anything we maintain a comparative advantage in being commodities, wheat, produce and as you put it, livestock.

 

Anything we do not have a comparative advantage in we should trade to receive ie using our materials we are most efficient at producing.

 

We should not skill people coming out of high school for example on how to work on the holden production line, rather how to fix cars that will eventually come from all over the world.

 

Europe will pay money for goods in industries that Australia has a comparative advantage since we can produce it more efficent, and cheaper as we have a higher economies of scale in those industries.

Edited by Legal Attorney

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The problem with the minimum wage at the moment is that you're paying some of the least skilled workers $20 an hour just to sit on their arses and do f**k all.

Compare that to say, a graduate student in America earning $20 an hour after 4 years of university study and a couple years experience.

 

I think the problem is we're trying to make living on the minimum wage "nice". It shouldn't be, being on the minimum wage should suck, so you have motivation to get skilled/further educated.

 

You make a good point, but A high minimum wage has pushed living costs here too high, sure a college grad in the states gets paid sweet f**k all, but in context to living costs there, workers there have that much more extra income to play with, take rent for example, my 3 bedroom unit in the outskirts of Brissy sets me back 360 a week, that same amount can be used to pay a months rent in a similar house in Chicago.

 

Buying property in the states at the moment is even cheaper, im building a house as I'm finishing uni and a 3 bedroom house is setting me back about 375 gs, my parents bought a house right on lake Michigan near downtown Chicago for 45gs cash. But even at its peak prosperity, living in the states was far cheaper than living in Australia by a huge factor.

 

If anything they should gradually lower it to an appropriate amount..

 

this is even more a joke.

 

a higher minimum wage does not push living costs through the roof.

 

higher living costs usually push the minimum wage higher and higher to compensate people who cannot afford the same standard of living they maintained previously.

 

essentially, increases in the costs of living are a result from people having sex ... :quagmire: as it increases the population which in turn places a heavier strain on what necessisties are available in our economy... scarce resources lead to higher prices charged by firms and so on.

 

a scrapping of the minimum wage will mean people will work harder for their money... have a look at greece where hardly anybody ever worked hard for their money 5 to 10 years ago... have a look at it now..

 

http://articles.cnn....ion?_s=PM:WORLD

 

a lack of paying tax and accountability by the government to hold tax dodgers accountable led to greece's current economic woes.

 

yet these same people protest against austerity measures? grow the f**k up..

 

i wouldn't say living in the states was hugely cheaper.. it is cheaper ill give you that.

 

the only reason for cheaper housing is the amount of foreclosures on the market and the amount of mortgages the bank have had to take on due to defaulting borrowers because of securitisation (the GFC crisis)

 

chicago seem to pay more for renting a house in the city centre than us in adelaide, yet pay less than us on the outskirts.. Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 1,155.84 $ 881.09 $

-23.77 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre 1,910.02 $ 2,662.50 $ +39.40 %

 

this could be attributed to lack of decent transport and general supply and demand.

Edited by Legal Attorney

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Google cost push inflation before you post that shit up, CBF explaining to you... Also twice as dumb considering Australia is seeing a decline in child birth... Our inflation is cost and tariff driven...

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thats not shit. you just stated a specific form of inflation where the economy is at a maximum production with its resources, and any increase in production costs are passed onto the consumer.

 

if you are a believer in cost push inflation, you would realise that the economy is worse off as a result of a minimum wage.

 

As of On 15 May 2012 at 09:30:23 PM (Canberra time), the resident population of Australia is projected to be: an overall total population increase of one person every 1 minute and 34 seconds .

 

hence, there still exists a growing population... you say we are experiencing a decline in child birth? where is that info from? your arse?

 

try this for measure: http://www.probonoaustralia.com.au/news/2010/01/top-10-trends-new-decade-2010-2020

 

The most significant price rises in the March quarter 2012 were for pharmaceutical products (+14.1%), secondary education (+7.7%), automotive fuel (+2.5%), medical and hospital services (+2.1%), tertiary education (+4.7%) and rents (+1.0%).

 

The most significant offsetting price falls were for fruit (–30.0%), international holiday travel and accommodation (–4.8%), furniture (–6.0%), audio, visual and computing equipment (–6.3%) and domestic holiday travel and accommodation (–2.0%).

 

Q1 : 2012

 

we still have an inflation rate, hence there is no total deflation

 

you are too generalist when you say our inflation is cost and tariff driven, any kid can say that..

 

the above is what caused our inflation/ the drivers as you put it.

 

rising fuel prices, increasing university costs along with the government ripping out the discount and incentive to pay back your hecs, secondary education as more children are put into the system, and medicine products with rising manufacturing costs by pharmecutical firms

 

if it were not for the retail sector, mainly jb hifi and similar, along with domestic travelers dropping their prices due to a lagging and unwillingness to spend due to harsh economic times by consumers, we would have more inflation in the economy..

 

fruit i believe, tends to be a seasonal good one would think as it is less attractive in winter.

Edited by Legal Attorney

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We should essentially produce and consequently export anything we maintain a comparative advantage in being commodities, wheat, produce and as you put it, livestock.

 

Anything we do not have a comparative advantage in we should trade to receive ie using our materials we are most efficient at producing.

 

We should not skill people coming out of high school for example on how to work on the holden production line, rather how to fix cars that will eventually come from all over the world.

 

Europe will pay money for goods in industries that Australia has a comparative advantage since we can produce it more efficent, and cheaper as we have a higher economies of scale in those industries.

 

This is something I really agree with, we need to let dying industries die. I'm f**king sick of them propping up industry to stave off the inevitable. If we are not competitive in manufacturing and we won't be in the foreseeable future, let it f**king die. Same goes for retail, we cannot compete globally in the retail market with the internet now essentially controlling most purchases, let the retail sector die.

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Hence why I said the minimum wage should be gradually reduced, rather than completely scrapped first shot, if you didn't ignore it smelling your own farts there was a certain national strike that occurred earlier this year, with the immediate removal of a certain petrol subsidizing scheme, if you scrap minimum wage immediately it may cause greater economic problems and a heavier dependence on the state .. If you think businesses are going to pass on the cheaper production costs readily, you're fooling yourself..

 

I used cost price inflation, because our inflation is cost and tariff driven..

 

Your example using Imported cars is bad as well, the logistics, tariffs and hands each Beamer passes through to get here is the reason why we pay such a premium.

 

As far as the real estate in the states goes, you're correct about foreclosures, many bargains to be had there of you plan on residing there.

 

Also most all retail in Australia is going to die off.. Inevitable..

Edited by spongeboy

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