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sweepa

Muslim Riots and calls for Deportation!

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Another thing we are all targeted as car hoons because of a minority of idiots that decide to perform illegal arts on the roads. nobody on the this forum likes it

yet when it happens to another group u all jump on the ban wagon.

By your comments aimed towards import now this is what u are saying. Crush all import cars!!! Because ur all hoons!

 

Hooning is a totally different situation to this, and the objections NS folk have are for totally different reasons.

'Hoon/hooning' is a reference to illegal behaviour on the road (some things minor, some things criminal), much like car-jacking, assault and robbery describe behaviour that's against the law.

 

The reason NS people get angry about the media comments regarding 'hooning' is because they try to pin it on specific car groups, despite the groups not being involved. People hoon in everything from trucks to hire-cars, however the modification community is singled out in almost every case, and penalties are applied to them. Even when community members comply with modification legislation and event organisers report illegal behaviour, we're still vilified.

 

In the case of this protest, it's fairly clear that these people are part of the muslim faith and hence muslim community. They could be Pakistani or Lebanese, but their acts are very clearly in support of a distinct group. Do their views represent the community as a whole? No. However their riot is in support of one cause and one cause alone; their religion.

 

As was mentioned with hoons, we as enthusiasts condemn hooning, but we don't go all vigilante on hoons do we?

Every time an ACA thread pops up, the same people who are trashing the Muslim community as a whole here, bitch about being victimized..

 

We're not exactly apathetic towards it either. Event organisers have a hard stance on behaviour, and most have a report-to-police policy in place.

Edited by pmod

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It's kind of ironic that the problem everyone has with these protests is the mob mentality and hatred displayed towards people/countries that don't deserve it. Yet online everyone has jumped on the bandwagon and created their own mob mentality against immigrants/muslims who had nothing to do with it.

 

Anyone who thinks people should be deported based on a crime (however only non whites) cause me cancer. How retarded can you be, seriously. Do people call to deport others when they cause fights in nightclubs or domestic violence against their family? So now when a white person commits a violent crime we should be demanding they get sent back to England as a convict.

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If someone originally came from another country (as in they were born overseas) and they committ a crime then send them back to where they came from

 

 

I'm not calling for a mass deportation of any race but if you come here looking for a better life then decided to f**k shit up, your here for the wrong reasons

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Peter89,

I'll put it in simple terms

 

The guy who made the video is a dick, not a primitive bigot..

 

It's too hard and complicated for a primitive bigot to put a video up on YouTube, it is however quite easy for one to riot violently over said video, and just as easy for the bigot above to condemn a whole community because of the fallout, without a full understanding.

 

As was mentioned with hoons, we as enthusiasts condemn hooning, but we don't go all vigilante on hoons do we?

 

Every time an ACA thread pops up, the same people who are trashing the Muslim community as a whole here, bitch about being victimized..

 

the difference is that I am not calling all muslims violent. I am stating the majority do not support the same freedom of speech the rest of Australia does.

I would be happy to be proven wrong but I am yet to see any actions that would show the rest of Australia that muslims are serious about defending freedom of speech and putting such laws ABOVE their own religion.

 

also it is important to state that just because I commend one group doesn't mean its isolated. There are definitely enough Christians within this country that don't understand freedom of speech as well but in my daily life I haven't seen that to be common.

 

In the end, you guys can disagree with the director all day long. Call him whatever you want and claim whatever punishments should happen.

However, if you assualt someone in Victoria ( cant be sure about other state laws on provocation) over a religious comment, you will end up in jail.

Edited by Peter89

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As was mentioned with hoons, we as enthusiasts condemn hooning, but we don't go all vigilante on hoons do we?

Every time an ACA thread pops up, the same people who are trashing the Muslim community as a whole here, bitch about being victimized..

 

Communities have the power to change individual behaviour.

In the case of the muslims protesting, if everyone in their community called them d*ckheads and refused to deal with them, their attitude would rapidly change. I gather this is what Peter89 is talking about. Not lynch mobs. Consider how much religious communities can ostracise gays and atheists, to the point that some try to 'convert back'. Apply that approach to these rioters, and the muslim community can do something about the poeple whose actions they condemn.

Edited by pmod

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A 17 year old male from Punchbowl was released on bail today, making him the 8th person charged over the riot nonsense.

 

 

Punchbowl is famous for punching.

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Both islam and christianity have their beginnings with one worshipped individual (Jesus on one end and Mohammed on the other). If you believe this person to be just a human and not the divine being they claim to be then the religion was corrupted from the start.

 

Lol dude, we believe Jesus was a prophet of God, same with moses, noah, Abraham, issac and David etc (most of them having different names in the Quran). We believe all these prophets came to THEIR people with a message: worship one God and stay away from doing wrong. We believe Mohammed was the final messanger that came for all humanity that was to come after him. and he left the Quran, which was revealed to him by God through angel Gabriel aka Holy spirit for the christian brothers out here lol. this text was brought down to correct the previous torah and bible. we believe in both torah and the bible however its no longer the literate word of god as mankind has changed it, translated it etc. Quran has never been changed to this day.

Also i find it weird the word Allah being used as "our God". its literate translation in arabic means "One God". even christians use the word Allah. so if u believe in one ultimate mighty God in some way, Muslims would agree you both beleive in the same God.

 

A few questions.....

 

1st off

 

 

 

Ok now that that is out of the way some questions for the Muslims on the forum

1. How can we trust you? For most westerners I think it's fair to say that we don't know a lot about Islam, and most of what we do know comes from mainstream media or things like the video below, so maybe we're just ignorant.

 

but how do we know? If what the video says is true about things like Taqiyya, how do we know that you really are a peaceful moderate Muslim and not just deceiving us. This is a legitimate concern for westerners.

 

2. As an Atheist, I'm also interested to know (and this goes for all religious people not just Muslims), why do you believe in your particular religion? Is it just because that's the way you were raised and you've never thought to question it or were just to afraid to, or is there really some tangible reason that makes you think your religion is the truth?

 

This is something that I really struggle to understand, how seemingly intelligent people capable of critical thought can throw reason to the wind and can put there faith in something despite not only a complete lack of any sort of credible evidence FOR your beliefs, but mountains of evidence to the contrary.

 

 

For the people defending the bible and Christianity as though it is some how more sane.

 

Deut. 22:13-21

"If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,’ 15 then the girl’s father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the girl’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl’s father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you," (
Deut. 22:13-21
).

The Bible

 

Maybe whats needed is for Atheists to get organised and start recruiting the way the major religions do. The world will be better for it.

 

1. Lol man the first time i found out about Taqqiya was from that very clip and many anti-islamic website four years ago. Ive never heard the word spread at Mosques or throughout my family from my upbringing. Its taken out of context like many things...

still not sure if u can trust us? come to the Islamic events held around melbourne (if ur in melb?) see first hand what where about...

 

2. yes i was muslim from family...18-20years old, partying and breaking rules was more fun so i wasn't really practicing. eventually i realised one day im gonna die and it could be tomorrow, looked into the purpose of life, wasnt getting happy with what i was doing, chasing money, materialistic things etc. researched the true meaning of Islam and started practicing and noticed the more positive in me. I dont call it a "religion" worshipping God all day, its a way of life. giving me boundaries and keeping me content with my life.

 

also, Ive been involved in peaceful rallies last year raising awareness for Egypt in melbourne. These things get organised by local islamic communities. our one got permission from melb city council, the organisation held full responsibility and had it planned, the leader of that organisation had ultimate responsibility at the end of the day and ensured things wouldnt get out of hand. The islamic community has done it right in the past...

last weekend was obviously a cronulla riot style get together with no responsible person behind it.

 

also, if you paid attention to the banners and flags, many of the crazies were from radical wahabi / crazy shia groups..

 

Some people here can see through all your bullshit.

 

Tell me, who sets the standards for Islam?

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As was mentioned with hoons, we as enthusiasts condemn hooning, but we don't go all vigilante on hoons do we?

Every time an ACA thread pops up, the same people who are trashing the Muslim community as a whole here, bitch about being victimized..

 

Communities have the power to change individual behaviour.

In the case of the muslims protesting, if everyone in thie community called them d*ckheads and refused to deal with them, their attitude would rapidly change.

 

I'll sum it up with this, 'rational people avoid the irrational for fear of losing brain cells'...

 

The problem with your point is that like all points of interests there are different circles and communities within.

 

sure the majority of the Muslim community as a whole could condemn their actions but would the dickheads change their behavior given the fact that these two sides rarely interact?

That's highly doubtful,

 

you see many Muslims condemning the crap that backwards imam we have here spewed out, but did that stop him from continuing to do so back then?

 

As I stated earlier we as enthusiasts can condemn hoons, but is it reasonable for us to labelled hoons?

 

Do you feel that those who are rational deserved to be punished for avoiding irrational confrontation? You do if you're condemning all Muslims for the actions of a few f**ktards within the community, for the doing the rational thing and staying at home when these docks went out smashed shit..

Edited by spongeboy

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they didnt..

 

southpark_muhammad_cartoon.gif

 

 

That was before, after the whole mess started they pussied out. Honestly I don't believe that Comedy Central acted completed alone and censored it without Matt and Trey's knowledge. They would have known.

 

Not to get too far off topic. But for those who are saying Violence is never the solution. That is not the case.

 

In cases of life and death, or a significant human rights issue it might be necessary. If the Government started or tried to deny everyone right to due process, or implemented policies that saw the price of basic goods like food and water sky rocket and become unaffordable. Or if the government was full of so much corruption that it would be impossible to clean it out without violence. Then I would each and everyone you a rifle and we could kill us some Politicians and if they stood in our way Police.

 

Violent revolutions have had plenty of positive results over the centuries. Including the French Revolution, The American Revolution and just recently the Arab Spring. But No violence is not the answer in the case of being 'Offended' but if it is a matter of life and liberty then go for your life.

 

Here's the thing though, western society has progressed to the point where this would never really occur. Although the public is still very ignorant, they are far more informed than ever before in history, and have much better access to knowledge and information. The police would not support a corrupt government and would not attack the public en masse. There would be no need for violence because knowledge would be more powerful. You wouldn't need to kill the police, or the politicians. You'd simply inform the police and get them to turn to your side.

 

The only time I could see violent revolution being a good strategy in a western country would be if the state was corrupt and it controlled the media, and there was no internet. The only reason people would fight on the side of a corrupt and evil government is through ignorance (and possibly reward - but there's only so much reward that can be given). The internet and social media really nullify the power of ignorance, as it's impossible to suppress the truth.

 

Anyway, this is all an aside, what I'm saying is I agree with the previous poster, violence is never a good answer.

 

 

 

 

In the case of this protest, it's fairly clear that these people are part of the muslim faith and hence muslim community. They could be Pakistani or Lebanese, but their acts are very clearly in support of a distinct group. Do their views represent the community as a whole? No. However their riot is in support of one cause and one cause alone; their religion.

 

Are you sure their views do not represent the community as a whole? Can we honestly sit back and say that the muslim communities would not support the further promotion of islamic ideologies, political philosophies and influence, islamic or sharia law instituted? I don't think so, I think we need to be honest and start having a serious discussion.

Islam is not just a religion, it contains it's own political system, economic system, justice, education, culture and religion. That's the big problem here.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited by bootlegapparel

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Bootleg,

 

Sharia law is a law set practiced by some Islamic nations, it isn't practiced by communities as such, there are many who believe sharia law is primitive within the Islamic community too, ask the 70 odd million Turks if you need evidence..

 

Most all religions encourage promotion of the faith, but most who practice, choose to spread it peacefully and with reason, they don't shove it down your Throat, I know plenty of Muslims, Christian, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, who stand by the term live and let live..

 

Funnily enough most of the ideal shoving I see is atheist fanboys, who ridicule those who practice one form of faith or another.

 

If you're an atheist like myself, you'd do well to shut the fvck up and let the facts and evidence behind evolution speak for itself..

 

I mean that generally not specifically..

Edited by spongeboy

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Are you sure their views do not represent the community as a whole? Can we honestly sit back and say that the muslim communities would not support the further promotion of islamic ideologies, political philosophies and influence, islamic or sharia law instituted? I don't think so, I think we need to be honest and start having a serious discussion.

Islam is not just a religion, it contains it's own political system, economic system, justice, education, culture and religion. That's the big problem here.

 

I know a few muslims that genuinely think the protestors are wankers, hence I added that provision. My point was to show the distinction between the hooning example and the riots.

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Funnily enough most of the ideal shoving I see is atheist fanboys, who ridicule those who practice one form of faith or another.

 

If you're an atheist like myself, you'd do well to shut the fvck up and let the facts and evidence behind evolution speak for itself..

 

I mean that generally not specifically..

 

Honestly, I'm just tired of it. Faiths deserve ridicule, the major faiths are f**king absurd and anyone who took the time to look into them or even read the "holy" books would realise that very quickly. If someones Christian, point them to the bible, they only really need to read Leviticus, or Deuteronomy and they'll no doubt alter their "faith" to fit their current value system. "Oh that doesn't count, I don't actually believe in that, I'll just pick and choose bits of the faith that I believe in, the old stuff was a metaphor, the old stuff only applied to people 2000 years ago, not today". These people are a few steps away from becoming atheist, or at least agnostic, and realising that religion is just a bunch of man made bullshit, but many of them won't give up the crutch. It's exhausting because you can see they cannot deny the evidence, but they keep continuing this line of bullshit. It's f**king bizarre to me. I mean there's that thing called The Clergy Project, where pastors who have actually lost their faith continue on preaching to their congregation, perpetuating things they know aren't true. Atheists shouldn't shut up, they should say; "look, this is just bullshit, here's why." If they don't, people will just keep themselves perpetually ignorant, and then they'll do the same to their own children and so on. How can you not say something in the face of that?

 

 

Are you sure their views do not represent the community as a whole? Can we honestly sit back and say that the muslim communities would not support the further promotion of islamic ideologies, political philosophies and influence, islamic or sharia law instituted? I don't think so, I think we need to be honest and start having a serious discussion.

Islam is not just a religion, it contains it's own political system, economic system, justice, education, culture and religion. That's the big problem here.

 

I know a few muslims that genuinely think the protestors are wankers, hence I added that provision. My point was to show the distinction between the hooning example and the riots.

 

Fair enough, they might think the protesters are wankers, but that doesn't mean that they don't want to see the proliferation of islam. Maybe this is a better question: Why does islam seem to create such a disproportionate amount of wankers in their communities?

 

 

 

.

Edited by bootlegapparel

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Bootleg,

Most all religions encourage promotion of the faith, but most who practice, choose to spread it peacefully and with reason, they don't shove it down your Throat, I know plenty of Muslims, Christian, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, who stand by the term live and let live..

Funnily enough most of the ideal shoving I see is atheist fanboys, who ridicule those who practice one form of faith or another.

If you're an atheist like myself, you'd do well to shut the fvck up and let the facts and evidence behind evolution speak for itself..

 

Why be so disrespectful?

 

Even if you think some these people are rude, silence has proven a highly ineffective tactic, particularly given the indoctrination process religion uses with children. Some people come around on their own, but many don't even think to question the validity of their beliefs unless prompted to contemplate. Some will be annoying and in your face, but I've yet to meet one that was worse than some of the theists that have got on my case of their own volition.

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Bootleg,

Most all religions encourage promotion of the faith, but most who practice, choose to spread it peacefully and with reason, they don't shove it down your Throat, I know plenty of Muslims, Christian, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, who stand by the term live and let live..

Funnily enough most of the ideal shoving I see is atheist fanboys, who ridicule those who practice one form of faith or another.

If you're an atheist like myself, you'd do well to shut the fvck up and let the facts and evidence behind evolution speak for itself..

 

Why be so disrespectful?

 

Even if you think some these people are rude, silence has proven a highly ineffective tactic, particularly given the indoctrination process religion uses with children. Some people come around on their own, but many don't even think to question the validity of their beliefs unless prompted to contemplate. Some will be annoying and in your face, but I've yet to meet one that was worse than some of the theists that have got on my case of their own volition.

 

I meant no disrespect with that statement,

 

I simply expressed how many atheist at times are

No better than the extremists of the faiths they oppose, all I Wanted to point out is that there is nothing wrong with having ideals or practicing a faith, so long as it isn't forced upon others, but promoted with reason.

 

Richard Dawkins promotes the idea of evolution with reason, He may confront some who choose not to believe but he never ridicules them for their ideals.

 

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Bootleg there's a simple answer to your question too, the middle east is full of their equivalent of rednecks,Completely chockablock with AK toting cousin fvcking rednecks, this is coming from a Turk.. You can't blame Islam or any belief for that.

 

Had atheism, christianity or Judaism become the primary belief there we would see the same issues we are facing today..

 

Also the vast majority of theists don't practice literally(word for word) they use their cognitive skills to apply the teachings of whatever religious text to benefit themselves and those around them.

 

South park has addressed things like this in the episode where cartman freezes himself in anticipation for the wii.. This is the moral of that episode,

 

The problem with mankind is not religion itself, but the fact that most of us, for some absurd reason, cannot shut the fvck up and let others have their own ideas however insignificant the difference in ideal is...

Edited by spongeboy

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Funnily enough most of the ideal shoving I see is atheist fanboys, who ridicule those who practice one form of faith or another.

 

If you're an atheist like myself, you'd do well to shut the fvck up and let the facts and evidence behind evolution speak for itself..

 

I mean that generally not specifically..

 

Honestly, I'm just tired of it. Faiths deserve ridicule, the major faiths are f**king absurd and anyone who took the time to look into them or even read the "holy" books would realise that very quickly. If someones Christian, point them to the bible, they only really need to read Leviticus, or Deuteronomy and they'll no doubt alter their "faith" to fit their current value system. "Oh that doesn't count, I don't actually believe in that, I'll just pick and choose bits of the faith that I believe in, the old stuff was a metaphor, the old stuff only applied to people 2000 years ago, not today". These people are a few steps away from becoming atheist, or at least agnostic, and realising that religion is just a bunch of man made bullshit, but many of them won't give up the crutch. It's exhausting because you can see they cannot deny the evidence, but they keep continuing this line of bullshit. It's f**king bizarre to me. I mean there's that thing called The Clergy Project, where pastors who have actually lost their faith continue on preaching to their congregation, perpetuating things they know aren't true. Atheists shouldn't shut up, they should say; "look, this is just bullshit, here's why." If they don't, people will just keep themselves perpetually ignorant, and then they'll do the same to their own children and so on. How can you not say something in the face of that?

 

 

Because it has nothing to do with you man.. Honestly, i would maybe understand if you were talking to a loved one, but seriously, to challenge randoms on the internet as to why they believe in certain religions is just f*cken ignorant and stupid..

 

Remember ages ago in this thread i said that atheists gave me the shits because they often have a major superiority complex?? Read you're post above and tell me it isn't flowing with that shit.. You are not smarter than someone else because you choose to believe something different to them..

 

 

Bootleg,

Most all religions encourage promotion of the faith, but most who practice, choose to spread it peacefully and with reason, they don't shove it down your Throat, I know plenty of Muslims, Christian, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, who stand by the term live and let live..

Funnily enough most of the ideal shoving I see is atheist fanboys, who ridicule those who practice one form of faith or another.

If you're an atheist like myself, you'd do well to shut the fvck up and let the facts and evidence behind evolution speak for itself..

 

Why be so disrespectful?

 

Even if you think some these people are rude, silence has proven a highly ineffective tactic, particularly given the indoctrination process religion uses with children. Some people come around on their own, but many don't even think to question the validity of their beliefs unless prompted to contemplate. Some will be annoying and in your face, but I've yet to meet one that was worse than some of the theists that have got on my case of their own volition.

 

Are you serious man? look through this thread as evidence.. Some of The atheists are attacking religious people in here, using terms such as "faiths deserve ridicule" and implying they can only have conversations with non religious people because religious people aren't rational enough to have a conversation.. I know the problem is bigger than this, but look how in your face some of the atheists are in this very thread, as opposed to the religious that have admitted they believe in something or other.. They havent attacked the atheists, ridiculing them for their beliefs, they have just let it go..

 

i can say it again because it suits, Atheists have a superiority complex.. and it is farrrken annoying..

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4.5 billion years of the Earth's existence. 10,000 years of known human existence. Thousands of years of philosophy by countless cultures. We're all just bags of meat and blood on a rock flying around a nuclear explosion and bootlegapparel has it all figured out.

 

It's always amusing when someone thinks they have the answers like it's never occured to anyone before.

Edited by steveP

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I'm pretty over it, but I'll just clear up one or two things:

 

Richard Dawkins promotes the idea of evolution with reason, He may confront some who choose not to believe but he never ridicules them for their ideals.

 

I would never ridicule someone because of their faith. I will ridicule their faith IF it is deserving of ridicule. There's a big difference between ridiculing a person and ridiculing religion. I don't want to ridicule a person for their beliefs.

 

 

Bootleg there's a simple answer to your question too, the middle east is full of their equivalent of rednecks,Completely chockablock with AK toting cousin fvcking rednecks, this is coming from a Turk.. You can't blame Islam or any belief for that.

 

Had atheism, christianity or Judaism become the primary belief there we would see the same issues we are facing today..

 

Also the vast majority of theists don't practice literally(word for word) they use their cognitive skills to apply the teachings of whatever religious text to benefit themselves and those around them.

 

I do agree with your sentiment, but you can lay the blame at religion. Violence may be a symptom of poverty, it may be a symptom of oppression and living in violence, and living in a harsh society, but you can lay the blame for poverty and oppression on religion. Religion is oppressive, it causes isolationism, it promotes violence and hatred of any who oppose or disagree with it.

 

All we have to do is look at history, why did the middle east go from being the centre of progress, society, culture, arts, mathematics and education and turn into the shitstorm it is today? Religion. Religion is not innocent or blameless.

 

Funnily enough most of the ideal shoving I see is atheist fanboys, who ridicule those who practice one form of faith or another.

 

If you're an atheist like myself, you'd do well to shut the fvck up and let the facts and evidence behind evolution speak for itself..

 

I mean that generally not specifically..

Honestly, I'm just tired of it. Faiths deserve ridicule, the major faiths are f**king absurd and anyone who took the time to look into them or even read the "holy" books would realise that very quickly. If someones Christian, point them to the bible, they only really need to read Leviticus, or Deuteronomy and they'll no doubt alter their "faith" to fit their current value system. "Oh that doesn't count, I don't actually believe in that, I'll just pick and choose bits of the faith that I believe in, the old stuff was a metaphor, the old stuff only applied to people 2000 years ago, not today". These people are a few steps away from becoming atheist, or at least agnostic, and realising that religion is just a bunch of man made bullshit, but many of them won't give up the crutch. It's exhausting because you can see they cannot deny the evidence, but they keep continuing this line of bullshit. It's f**king bizarre to me. I mean there's that thing called The Clergy Project, where pastors who have actually lost their faith continue on preaching to their congregation, perpetuating things they know aren't true. Atheists shouldn't shut up, they should say; "look, this is just bullshit, here's why." If they don't, people will just keep themselves perpetually ignorant, and then they'll do the same to their own children and so on. How can you not say something in the face of that?

 

Because it has nothing to do with you man.. Honestly, i would maybe understand if you were talking to a loved one, but seriously, to challenge randoms on the internet as to why they believe in certain religions is just f*cken ignorant and stupid..

 

Remember ages ago in this thread i said that atheists gave me the shits because they often have a major superiority complex?? Read you're post above and tell me it isn't flowing with that shit.. You are not smarter than someone else because you choose to believe something different to them..

 

But that's the thing, it does have an impact on you. Look at America, if you lived there in the wrong state and had a kid, you might have to move because the school wants to teach creationism. In Australia we have the ACL, we have Islamic communities and organisations trying to push their values, we have problems because no one is bothered to say anything.

 

Explain to me exactly what is ignorant and stupid about challenging others? I welcome challenges. If your faith can't stand up to a little challenge what kind of faith is that? And I'm not challenging individuals in any case, simply challenging the religion. I've never attacked any individual personally. If a person can't handle challenges to their religion perhaps they can't even face their own doubts that a challenge would bring up.

 

And on this superiority complex, this is such a cop out. I never claimed to be smarter than anyone else, and I also never claimed to believe anything. In fact, I claim to not "believe", that's the point. You don't "believe" in atheism. I don't think or claim that I am "superior" in any way. Anyone is welcome to challenge and disagree with me or anyone else, the point is to have a reasoned discussion.

 

What is your problem with having discussion on this topic?

 

Bootleg,

Most all religions encourage promotion of the faith, but most who practice, choose to spread it peacefully and with reason, they don't shove it down your Throat, I know plenty of Muslims, Christian, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, who stand by the term live and let live..

Funnily enough most of the ideal shoving I see is atheist fanboys, who ridicule those who practice one form of faith or another.

If you're an atheist like myself, you'd do well to shut the fvck up and let the facts and evidence behind evolution speak for itself..

 

Why be so disrespectful?

 

Even if you think some these people are rude, silence has proven a highly ineffective tactic, particularly given the indoctrination process religion uses with children. Some people come around on their own, but many don't even think to question the validity of their beliefs unless prompted to contemplate. Some will be annoying and in your face, but I've yet to meet one that was worse than some of the theists that have got on my case of their own volition.

 

Are you serious man? look through this thread as evidence.. Some of The atheists are attacking religious people in here, using terms such as "faiths deserve ridicule" and implying they can only have conversations with non religious people because religious people aren't rational enough to have a conversation.. I know the problem is bigger than this, but look how in your face some of the atheists are in this very thread, as opposed to the religious that have admitted they believe in something or other.. They havent attacked the atheists, ridiculing them for their beliefs, they have just let it go..

 

i can say it again because it suits, Atheists have a superiority complex.. and it is farrrken annoying..

 

Since you quoted me I'll assume you're talking about me. I have never attacked anyone. Just the religion. I give good rational, evidence based reasons for my attacks on religion. And I'll say it again, atheists don't have "beliefs" (in this context), that's the point. There is no superiority complex, honestly, if someone wants to convince me that religion is good for the world, and doesn't cause harm, and is correct, I am open to that discussion and I'm open to being convinced.

 

Why do you get so worked up over having (other people's) beliefs challenged?

 

 

.

Edited by bootlegapparel

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I don't want to come across as a dick, but ridiculing someone's beliefs is much the same as ridiculing that individual as it insults their very beliefs,

 

yes there are some who misinterpret/corrupt ancient scripture from religions and use faith as a vehicle to promote violence as a medium to their ends.

 

These religious texts are more or less stories, which are used as guidelines to live by, so you can pick and choose how you live as a Christian/Jew/Muslim.

 

Also Islam was existent and thriving during these leaps and bounds the middle east made as far as medicine and science went, however around the 1970's to the 1980's during the cold war, the rednecks came out to play.

 

Challenging one's faith and insulting them are

Two different things, Richard Dawkins challenges, half the fanboys here insult and ridicule.

Edited by spongeboy

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Are you serious man? look through this thread as evidence.. Some of The atheists are attacking religious people in here, using terms such as "faiths deserve ridicule" and implying they can only have conversations with non religious people because religious people aren't rational enough to have a conversation.. I know the problem is bigger than this, but look how in your face some of the atheists are in this very thread, as opposed to the religious that have admitted they believe in something or other.. They havent attacked the atheists, ridiculing them for their beliefs, they have just let it go..

 

i can say it again because it suits, Atheists have a superiority complex.. and it is farrrken annoying..

 

If I looked through NS for facts, I'd walk away thinking veilside kits are the origin of the HIV virus, and butt sex is a national sport.

 

Honestly, I've had many debates in real life, and most times get told I'm corrupt, destined for hell, immoral, etc. I try to be civil. Your 'superiority' objections regarding atheists apply to theists in equal measure, except there are far more of you than there are of us. ;)

Edited by pmod

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To be honest.. I do think I'm somewhat superior to theists. The entire notion that you believe in something without evidence is f**king absurd. I'm not saying that I'm sure there isn't a god however at this current point in time there is no evidence that there is so therefore the logical position is to not believe in god. I also don't know for sure how the universe started but just because I don't know doesn't mean that I default to what people thought over 1000 years ago. Religion isn't scientific because modern science wasn't around then. Humans didn't know how to explain things so they went with "god did it" now we have science to explain things and it's a better system even if it doesn't currently have all the answers.

 

Belief in a god is not necessarily an irrational decision but belief in any of the formal religions which have many aspects that are full of shit is completely irrational. I'm not familiar enough with Islam to know which aspects have since been proven to be bullshit but anyone who thinks that Noah got all the animals on to one boat and somehow the lions didn't kill the gazelle and the polar bears didn't die of heat stroke is a f**king moron and deserves to be ridiculed.

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It's kind of ironic that the problem everyone has with these protests is the mob mentality and hatred displayed towards people/countries that don't deserve it. Yet online everyone has jumped on the bandwagon and created their own mob mentality against immigrants/muslims who had nothing to do with it.

 

Anyone who thinks people should be deported based on a crime (however only non whites) cause me cancer. How retarded can you be, seriously. Do people call to deport others when they cause fights in nightclubs or domestic violence against their family? So now when a white person commits a violent crime we should be demanding they get sent back to England as a convict.

 

Sprry but that comment is just stupid... if they're Australian born then no, obviously we cant deport them. But in the case of new arrivals who aren't Australian citizens/permanent resident committing absolutely should result in them being deported... if they arent a citizen/permanent resident, they arent really our problem so why put up with it?

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Well said.. Doesn't matter who the f**k they are, why do peole like yourself ALWAYS turn it onto race, paranoid bunch of f**kwits. If it was a bunch of 'white' people rioting about the same bullshit and kids running around with signs I'd want them just as much gone, wether it's my Aussie neighbor next door or some radical

Extremist bullshit group. We will not put up with it. We do not want these problems in this country, live in f**king peace and enjoy this beautiful land, don't destroy it and turn it into a third world shot hole that you wanted to get away from.

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Ok 1st off...

 

Hahahaha, if you were actualy familiar with history, you would know that the greatest rational thinker of all time 'Sir Issac Newton' had one passion above all in life - And nope it wasn't the sciences. Guess what was? It was, reading... the Bible!

 

Looks like you've just been proven wrong.

 

WTF? That has to be the absolute weakest, stupidest, lamest argument of the bible I have ever heard!!!!!!!! Issac Newton read the bible so it must be true? Are you f**king kidding me?

 

2nd, we seem to be back on the topic about deporting people because what they did was ILLEGAL and trying to compare it to car hoons. As was mentioned earlier, the illegality of there actions is not the issue, It's that they HATE US AND WANT TO KILL US!!!! Put it this way would you invite someone into your home knowing that they hated you and wanted to cause you harm. Would you invite them in knowing that they wanted to force there ideologies on you and made you feel uncomfortable and unsafe in your own home? No of of course you wouldn't. Australia is our home and we want to feel safe and comfortable in our own home and I don't think there is anything unreasonable about that.

 

3rd, addressing the "Muslims should be defending free speech" argument, absolutely they should, If they want the Australian public to trust them and not lump them in with the extremists they need to speak up and show the world they are different. You don't have to like what is being said or agree with it, but you need to DEFEND peoples RIGHT to say it.

 

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

 

Voltaire

It's really in your best interests to stamp out extremism, if you think the Australian public is intolerant or racist toward Muslims now, wait until one of these fundamentalists kills someone or or does some sort of suicide bombing on Australian soil, the public will turn on Muslims so fast it's not funny...

 

and lastly, the Atheists should shut the fvck up argument.....

 

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

I am so sick of people hiding behind the "everyone is entitled to there own opinion" argument. The fact is some people opinions are just plain wrong!!!!! And whats worse actually bring harm to others. Yes you have the right to believe what you want to believe, just as I have the right to think that your a fvcken retarded idiot for those beliefs.

As I posted earlier.

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”

 

And the facts are that pretty much all of the events the bible tries to claim took place can be disproved. This is not "opinion" this is "FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

We KNOW that the earth is more than 5-10 Thousand years old

We KNOW that the human race did not start with Adam and EVE

We KNOW that there were no giant fish on earth Jonah to live in

We KNOW there was no great flood

There is NO EVIDENCE to show that the Egyptians had a bunch of Jewish slaves who escaped through the sea and wondered the desert for 40 years

The list goes on.

 

There is no historical recordings (outside the bible itself) or physical evidence to support almost any claims the bible makes. This is FACT not OPINION.

 

Even the Catholic Church says the bible shouldn't be taken literally and that it's more of a collection of old stories designed to teach us good morals (which is another debate all of it's own).

 

Furthermore we are constantly having religious groups indoctrinate young kids and infiltrating our politics, changing laws to push there views on to the pubic. We have groups like the ACL and the lions forum who have great political influence and Islamic groups pushing for recognition of sharia law in western democracies.

 

All the while Atheists are marginalized and made to look like they're the crazy ones, all because they like to believe scientific evidence and not deal in absolutes, instead subscribing to the idea of "we just don't know" for things that can't be proven.

 

No, Atheists need to speak up and let people know that "we aren't the crazy ones"!

Edited by sweepa

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I am still waiting a reply, but as usual my muslim friends chicken out. It's a cult after all.

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Ok 1st off...

 

Hahahaha, if you were actualy familiar with history, you would know that the greatest rational thinker of all time 'Sir Issac Newton' had one passion above all in life - And nope it wasn't the sciences. Guess what was? It was, reading... the Bible!

 

Looks like you've just been proven wrong.

 

WTF? That has to be the absolute weakest, stupidest, lamest argument of the bible I have ever heard!!!!!!!! Issac Newton read the bible so it must be true? Are you f**king kidding me?

 

2nd, we seem to be back on the topic about deporting people because what they did was ILLEGAL and trying to compare it to car hoons. As was mentioned earlier, the illegality of there actions is not the issue, It's that they HATE US AND WANT TO KILL US!!!! Put it this way would you invite someone into your home knowing that they hated you and wanted to cause you harm. Would you invite them in knowing that they wanted to force there ideologies on you and made you feel uncomfortable and unsafe in your own home? No of of course you wouldn't. Australia is our home and we want to feel safe and comfortable in our own home and I don't think there is anything unreasonable about that.

 

3rd, addressing the "Muslims should be defending free speech" argument, absolutely they should, If they want the Australian public to trust them and not lump them in with the extremists they need to speak up and show the world they are different. You don't have to like what is being said or agree with it, but you need to DEFEND peoples RIGHT to say it.

 

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

 

Voltaire

It's really in your best interests to stamp out extremism, if you think the Australian public is intolerant or racist toward Muslims now, wait until one of these fundamentalists kills someone or or does some sort of suicide bombing on Australian soil, the public will turn on Muslims so fast it's not funny...

 

and lastly, the Atheists should shut the fvck up argument.....

 

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

I am so sick of people hiding behind the "everyone is entitled to there own opinion" argument. The fact is some people opinions are just plain wrong!!!!! And whats worse actually bring harm to others. Yes you have the right to believe what you want to believe, just as I have the right to think that your a fvcken retarded idiot for those beliefs.

As I posted earlier.

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”

 

And the facts are that pretty much all of the events the bible tries to claim took place can be disproved. This is not "opinion" this is "FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

We KNOW that the earth is more than 5-10 Thousand years old

We KNOW that the human race did not start with Adam and EVE

We KNOW that there were no giant fish on earth Jonah to live in

We KNOW there was no great flood

There is NO EVIDENCE to show that the Egyptians had a bunch of Jewish slaves who escaped through the sea and wondered the desert for 40 years

The list goes on.

 

There is no historical recordings (outside the bible itself) or physical evidence to support almost any claims the bible makes. This is FACT not OPINION.

 

Even the Catholic Church says the bible shouldn't be taken literally and that it's more of a collection of old stories designed to teach us good morals (which is another debate all of it's own).

 

Furthermore we are constantly having religious groups indoctrinate young kids and infiltrating our politics, changing laws to push there views on to the pubic. We have groups like the ACL and the lions forum who have great political influence and Islamic groups pushing for recognition of sharia law in western democracies.

 

All the while Atheists are marginalized and made to look like they're the crazy ones, all because they like to believe scientific evidence and not deal in absolutes, instead subscribing to the idea of "we just don't know" for things that can't be proven.

 

No, Atheists need to speak up and let people know that "we aren't the crazy ones"!

 

no, you are the ones that push your opinions way more than modern day religious folk do.. look at you're responses in here compared to the religious ones.. you have lots of !!!!!! and CAPITALS and are really stressing to get your point across.. just f*cken leave it man.. you believe in something, others believe in other things.. its amazing to me that you have such a hatred towards religions yet the very thing that atheists bitch about is what atheists do..

 

Just shut up and set the example, let people believe what they want to believe.. 99% of the time it doesnt affect you in the slightest..

 

and as i said earlier, and bootleg (your atheist mate) somewhat agreed..

 

there is a chance, albeit a .001% chance, that a god or some sort of almighty being created the ingredients that made up the initial big bang.. there is no proof otherwise, atheists have no proof that things can just appear from 'nothing' (we have already discussed it, go back and read it over) so how are you so sure that there is nothing more mighty than humans..

 

do you believe in aliens?? and if you do, how can you be sure that some sort of alien with its technology that is unknown to humans didnt create our universe and everything in it? maybe we are a reality tv show setup by aliens, (ala southpark).. You dont know, and there is no way you can prove it isnt.. so if someone wants to believe that shit, just let them..

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Are you serious man? look through this thread as evidence.. Some of The atheists are attacking religious people in here, using terms such as "faiths deserve ridicule" and implying they can only have conversations with non religious people because religious people aren't rational enough to have a conversation.. I know the problem is bigger than this, but look how in your face some of the atheists are in this very thread, as opposed to the religious that have admitted they believe in something or other.. They havent attacked the atheists, ridiculing them for their beliefs, they have just let it go..

 

i can say it again because it suits, Atheists have a superiority complex.. and it is farrrken annoying..

 

If I looked through NS for facts, I'd walk away thinking veilside kits are the origin of the HIV virus, and butt sex is a national sport.

 

Honestly, I've had many debates in real life, and most times get told I'm corrupt, destined for hell, immoral, etc. I try to be civil. Your 'superiority' objections regarding atheists apply to theists in equal measure, except there are far more of you than there are of us. ;)

 

thats weird man, because i have quite a few religious friends/acquaintences, and i never ever get told that shit.. in fact, iv never heard any religious person tell anyone that doesnt believe that they are going to hell or whatever (except in movies, tv shows, stuff like that) It very well may be different for you, but all the religious people i know are very accepting of others beliefs and whatnot.. its all the atheists i know that feel they need to push their views on others, to prove them 'wrong'..

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the reason they are like this Harris is because they are trying to findthem selves... all atheists are.

they put on a mask to show they are comfortable in believing in nothing and that they have the answers but deep down they are lost.

 

see i know what i belive, i understand, i know who i am. hence i do not need to push my beliefs onto others.

 

and they prove this countlessly in this thread

Edited by george.k

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