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Spazo

Are nissan silvias fast?

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Simple question... compared with new cars with modern engine and transmissions - are our cars even fast anymore?

 

Don't be a spastic and bring highly modded cars into the discussion.

Edited by Spazo
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Yes, stock for stock they still beat most things on the road unless the engine capacity is a fair bit bigger.

 

There is also nearly nothing that shares the same platform any more (FR manual 4cyl) let alone forced induction on top of that.

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Depends what your comparing it to and in what respects in a straight line or around corners I don't think the ft86 is that powerful but it corners pretty well, and when you can get 200rwkw with not allot of mods on a s14/15 I think there still pretty competitive

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Yes, stock for stock they still beat most things on the road unless the engine capacity is a fair bit bigger.

 

There is also nearly nothing that shares the same platform any more (FR manual 4cyl) let alone forced induction on top of that.

 

I bought a new WRX and it ticks most of those boxes other than being FR and its f**king quick for a stock car.

 

Dyno run of the standard new WRX brings good numbers, between 160-170 AWKW with decent torque, dead stock. Don't know what that would be in RWKW.

 

Harder to modify compared to a Silvia but stock for stock, it'll destroy the Silvias, skylines and mines only a 2.5ltr.

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^ Extra capacity, short ratios and 4WD traction will do that. Given you're taking on, at minimum, a 10 year old car you'd hope it would beat it. How does it go against something newer with similar performance like an Evo X, a Focus RS, Golf R32/GTi or other hot hatches?

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^ Extra capacity, short ratios and 4WD traction will do that. Given you're taking on, at minimum, a 10 year old car you'd hope it would beat it. How does it go against something newer with similar performance like an Evo X, a Focus RS, Golf R32/GTi or other hot hatches?

 

Well I was just answering the question that was asked, new cars vs the old. And 500cc isn't heaps more and I mentioned skylines as well.

 

I don't race people so don't know what it'll be like against those other cars but I assume it'll be close to most except the Evo with its dual clutch auto set up. If I had an STi than it'll be closer again. But this isn't what was asked.

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Stock for stock, I'd say newer cars are faster. That said, from my experience, Silvias are really easy to drive and very reactive to the driver. The newer cars may be faster but they probably won't have the same enjoyment.

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Well I was just answering the question that was asked, new cars vs the old. And 500cc isn't heaps more and I mentioned skylines as well.

 

I don't race people so don't know what it'll be like against those other cars but I assume it'll be close to most except the Evo with its dual clutch auto set up. If I had an STi than it'll be closer again. But this isn't what was asked.

 

500cc isn't that much extra capacity but the additional torque is considerable, especially when combined with the other things I mentioned. You did mention Skylines but not a GTR, which is similar in capacity, has 4WD traction, etc.

 

Comparing your WRX to the Silvias as per the original question gives a sense of their speed, as does comparing the WRX to other cars that people will recognise and know a bit about. If your WRX loses to something like an EVO X or a Renault Megane Sport, etc then it gives people an indication of the speeed of the Silvia by proxy. They can then draw their own conclusions.

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Well I had the feeling that modern cars are getting pretty quick but I am not sure, that's why I ask.

 

One example from me - my dads new work van is a hyaundai iload, and that thing pulls pretty hard onto the freeway. Seating position and the way a car rides can really affect the way we perceive speed I know but the needle rises up the speedo just as quickly as it does in my sil (on stockish boost).

 

I agree a silvia is fast when knowing how to take off quickly, flat changing and just generally being a keen manual driver, but hopping in some of these modern cars I get the feeling they are pretty quick without wringing their necks (not just sports cars but family sedans etc). I realize I beat them off the lights because no-one's really putting their foot down.

Edited by Spazo
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Im under the opinion of power to dollar value you can have a budget of 40 grand and buy a new car or buy an old car and improve it with the extra coin and go much faster not the question but still a relevant statement

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I think for what they are they are still a quick car. But as said there isn't really anything here to compare it to. But they are still can hold there own against most modern cars

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Was driving the Mrs stock S14 last weekend and it kept up with the Ford F6 (or what ever its called) off the lights. Didnt realise he even wanted to show me up as her car is bone stock. Makes me wonder what would have been if I had put effort into a launch... or in my S14 ;)

 

This being said I feel stock body cars are looking a bit dated but some JDM factory kit is quick to boost the visual appeal.

Edited by DriftR_S14

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Well I was just answering the question that was asked, new cars vs the old. And 500cc isn't heaps more and I mentioned skylines as well. I don't race people so don't know what it'll be like against those other cars but I assume it'll be close to most except the Evo with its dual clutch auto set up. If I had an STi than it'll be closer again. But this isn't what was asked.
500cc isn't that much extra capacity but the additional torque is considerable, especially when combined with the other things I mentioned. You did mention Skylines but not a GTR, which is similar in capacity, has 4WD traction, etc. Comparing your WRX to the Silvias as per the original question gives a sense of their speed, as does comparing the WRX to other cars that people will recognise and know a bit about. If your WRX loses to something like an EVO X or a Renault Megane Sport, etc then it gives people an indication of the speeed of the Silvia by proxy. They can then draw their own conclusions.

 

Not ever being in or owned a stock GTR, EVO, Megane or whatever else you've said, I can't compare it. Comparing cars that I've owned, S13's, 180's, Built GTR, other skylines, Stagea, blah blah, I can tell you that like I did before, stock for stock, a Silvia is not fast compared to today turbo cars. Even a lot of todays run of the mill Commo, falcons either. Yes they cost more, are much newer but that was the question.

 

I know there are plenty of cars faster than mine. Yes it'll lose to a EVO 10, 35 GTR, an STi WRX etc but it felt faster than the VE SS ute I test drove. Without dragging every standard car getting around, how can I even answer your question? In a mates 32 GTR with mild mods, I believe it was the same. Work mates S8 FD with rebuilt standard motor, the WRX is quicker by a little bit.

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Im under the opinion of power to dollar value you can have a budget of 40 grand and buy a new car or buy an old car and improve it with the extra coin and go much faster not the question but still a relevant statement

Yeah but if you want to compare that way, how about we calculate the ongoing cost of parts breaking on that modded car?

Not to mention time lost when the break downs happen.

The power/dollar ratio starts to swing the other way then.

 

The stock Silvia makes 150kw, and a lot of the low end turbo cars can't seem to exceed that by much even today.

Hyundai Veloster Turbo has 150kw

VW Golf GTI 155kw

 

Personally i am unimpressed with any turbo car these days that makes less than 180kw.

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I think the s chassis sr20det platform is still very good even down to the geometry of the car iy doesnt take much to make reliable power and its allot more fun to drive then the evo I have driven imo

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Im under the opinion of power to dollar value you can have a budget of 40 grand and buy a new car or buy an old car and improve it with the extra coin and go much faster not the question but still a relevant statement

I agree and prefer to go this way and have a far better car fully done up for the price of a standard new one

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Stock Silvia is 147kw at the flywheel and 1260kg. They are definitely competitive against any new car. All u need is a boost t and a boost gauge and you can wind the boost from 6-7psi upto around 14psi safely, and that is a fair wack of extra almost free power which would turn it into a pretty quick car.

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standard for standard,

 

stock s15 will be beaten by xr6t, xr5t, 370z, GT, R8, SS, XR8 etc...

 

anyhting with more power to weight respectivly,

 

they arent that flash out of the box in australia delivered 200sx.

 

as mentioned before, "free boost mod" Pod and 3" it will give a lot of things a fiar run for their money, if not quicker than the formentioned.

 

i reckon they are easy to mod to get good power out of them for not much dosh out of pocket...

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No, stock Silvias are not quick cars anymore. A pretty average family sedan such as six cylinder commodore, falcon, aurion I would think in a straight line would give them a run for their money and these are not even performance cars. New performance cars such as WRX, Evos even HSVs and FPVs will hammer a stock silvia.

 

The whole reason I am drawn to imports is the potential to get more power out of these cars easily as well as the handling, looks and sound. Even my old 180sx with boost increase, intercooler, fuel pump, exhaust, probably 160 rwkw I would say by todays standards would be just ok, not really quick. It was fun to drive but not really crazy fast in a straight line.

 

It is when you start putting on bigger turbo, ECU, injectors, cams, E85 and really upping the boost where the fun starts. This is where the late 90s imports can really compete with newer cars. My current R34 GTT daily driver at 320 rwkw is quicker than the majority of new cars I see on the road and I have not really had to spend very much money to get it to this stage.

 

I thought long and hard about buying a newer car but there was nothing for a reasonable price that would really offer the performance, fun, looks and sound that I was after.

 

So to answer your question, stock Silvias are slow as by todays standards but it is the potential and the after market support which can really make them quick.

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i agree they are slow stock compared to newer cars. my cousin has a current model xr6 paid$24 from a dealer and he left me for dead in my s15 when i put it stock for regency. my sisters e46 330ci is also ridiculously fast and its heavy as shit caus its a convertible. that said i have no regrets buying and modifying my car as its not for speed but enjoyment.

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I took an 86 for a test drive when they first launched last year.

 

on paper it should be as quick as a stock S13, if not quicker. My 180 is pretty young (97) and has modifications (boost, exhaust, intake, etc) and while I've never had it dyno'd I would say its probably not too far over 150kw at the wheels. Im fine with this - its my daily driver, so big power isnt worth the loss of reliabilty, and it can be more than a handful as it is.

 

The 86 felt just as quick, and if I was less paranoid about pranging a brand new car and focused more on the speedo as I pulled through the gears, I would say it is probably a bit quicker than my car.

 

The reason I walked out of the dealership and got back into my car? the 86 just felt muted. the acceleration was linear and boring (and that torque dip in the mid range sucks) in comparison to the big gob of torque that hits in when the turbo comes in (standard T25 at 13PSI) .the steering was OK but not as visceral as my car. There was heaps of grip but you never felt like you were on the edge of it, even with the Prius tires.

 

It just didnt feel 'chuckable' and I realised, for 35k, I was getting a very similar platform that was just as impractical as what i had (if no moreso, due to the 180sx being a hatchback than can swallow a shitload of crap if you need it to) and just wasnt as engaging to drive as my car. The steering wheel just didnt feel as connected, the throttle either. It was a bit of a let down really. The only thing I would be getting for 35K is less headaches from things wearing out like door hinges, the squeaks and creaks, the bumpy ride, all of which make my car so engaging and fun to drive.

 

the 86 is probably the closest thing to a modern day silvia we will ever get, but its nowhere near as raw as the Japanese coupes of the 90s. Lord knows modern day Nissan isnt capable of cranking out a decent S16.

 

 

Im thinking my next car is going to be a WRX hatch or a Forester turbo. I want the practicality and the offroad capabilities (dirt roads, not mud running or anything) and they have plenty of power while remaining sporty.

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New cars *should* be better. If even just for emissions, everything has higher compression, some form of VVL/VTEC, and if its turbo'd, the better ones are leaning twin scroll. Look at power figures - 90's Nissans make peak torque at 4400 rpm. Veloster makes peak torque (I read this ages ago, so just for example) at "2000-4500". But everything being made should be *better*, if not just quicker.

 

Still, to put it in perspective, for a car and engine designed in the 80's, I think an SR silvia is absolutely amazing. And it was meant to be the cheap alternative to a Skyline.

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I think it's not as simple to make the cars as fast from factory as it was years ago.

 

if a new car now can not meet certain emissions levels it can't be sold.

If a new car can not meet certain Fuel consumption levels it won't be bought.

 

also it is hard for a manufacturer to build a car aimed at what is really a small % of the market

and not go backwards.

 

now days for the design, build and launch process of a car you are talking hundreds of Millions of

dollars. quiet a few hitting the billion mark and that is even before one is sold.

 

that is a LOT of $30,000 cars to be sold to get back what the initial investment.

 

But to answer your original question, Yes i do believe cars now days are quicker stock to stock.

BUT Probably not in the Front engine Rear Drive format Format.

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To answer the actual question:

Considering that some of the performance cars of days gone by will now be trounced by a modern Corolla or Camry (meaning they literally are NOT considered quick any measure), and this is not the case for the s-chassis in turbo form, I think that they can still be considered quick. Although in saying that, my old man's Aurion is decently fast for what it is.

 

To answer the implied question:

Of course most new sports cars, performance-oriented convertibles and sports sedans will beat a stock s-chassis. Not only do they use newer tech, but they do so in a more ambitious configuration, as the manufacturers make so few of each class of car they aren't worried about competing within their own ranks like Nissan did in the 90s. The s-chassis could have been pushed much harder by the factory, but Nissan already had the R32GTS-T, R32GTR, R33GTS-T, R33GTR, R34GTT, R34GTR and Z32TT to outrank it, not to mention there was an overlap in s-chassis with the 180sx and S14 running at the same time, and S14 and S15 running at the same time.

 

no. stocko vk commo 5L makes 177kw and weighs the same as a s15...

 

:lol:

 

It would run out of fuel on the 4th pass though... ;)

Edited by pmod

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I think it's not as simple to make the cars as fast from factory as it was years ago.

 

 

 

What? Buy a new WRX or Golf GTI/Golf R, Or any of the hot hot hatches (ford, Renault) and you can have the ECU flashed for an easy 30-50KW.

 

throw in an exhaust and a filter and you can get even more.

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From a p players point of view... Are na silvias fast compared to say a newer 1.8L corolla, nope.

 

Displacment means nothing these days, hell even a smart car is pretty quick for the size of the engine haha

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NA Silvias were never fast. That's why people drove Hondas if they were going the NA path.

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NA Silvias were never fast. That's why people drove Hondas if they were going the NA path.

this ^^. I got flogged by integras errday.

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